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MSHSAA staff discussion

Discussion of quizbowl topics not related to specific tournaments
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Charlie Dees
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MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by Charlie Dees » Sat May 05, 2012 4:18 pm

Moderator note - thread split from State game schedules

Man, that staff pool came straight out of the Burgess Shale. Bad times.

Sykology
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Re: State game schedules

Post by Sykology » Sat May 05, 2012 4:35 pm

I've never been given such a hard time by a moderator. Our third place game was an absolute joke. Other than that most that we encountered weren't terrible.

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Charlie Dees
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Re: State game schedules

Post by Charlie Dees » Sat May 05, 2012 4:45 pm

A certain class 4 moderator is consistently horrible, yet nobody has complained about her to MSHSAA so she's always there. It's time for that to stop, because she reads the semis and third place game and is 100% incapable of pronouncing things correctly and has no involvement with quizbowl, and thus no familiarity with the rules, yet handles the game as if she's the expert. It's very unenjoyable both as a player and spectator.

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Re: State game schedules

Post by Sykology » Sat May 05, 2012 4:53 pm

Sounds very familiar. There are quite a few hillarious rulings I wish I was allowed to recount. I almost got the feeling that she wanted us to lose. But, I really think it was just her inability to read words and understand words that left me feeling that way.

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Re: State game schedules

Post by DeckardCain » Sat May 05, 2012 5:11 pm

MSHSAA staffers have always been very hit-or-miss. A few are good, most are terrible.

Apparently they do take recommendations for who to invite (they've posted an official recommendation form on their site, at least). As for me I have zero interest in ever moderating MSHSAA state again after being unceremoniously uninvited a few years ago.

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Re: State game schedules

Post by scphilli » Sat May 05, 2012 5:36 pm

DeckardCain wrote:MSHSAA staffers have always been very hit-or-miss. A few are good, most are terrible.

Apparently they do take recommendations for who to invite (they've posted an official recommendation form on their site, at least). As for me I have zero interest in ever moderating MSHSAA state again after being unceremoniously uninvited a few years ago.
Heh, you, me, and Paul Nelson all uninvited. Explains plenty.

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DeckardCain
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Re: State game schedules

Post by DeckardCain » Sat May 05, 2012 6:42 pm

scphilli wrote:
DeckardCain wrote:MSHSAA staffers have always been very hit-or-miss. A few are good, most are terrible.

Apparently they do take recommendations for who to invite (they've posted an official recommendation form on their site, at least). As for me I have zero interest in ever moderating MSHSAA state again after being unceremoniously uninvited a few years ago.
Heh, you, me, and Paul Nelson all uninvited. Explains plenty.
Heh indeed. I leave it as an exercise to the reader what it means that the three people who in all likelihood have moderated more games of Missouri quizbowl than anyone else aren't invited to read at what is purportedly the biggest tournament of the year.

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Mewto55555
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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by Mewto55555 » Sat May 05, 2012 6:54 pm

We had one fantastic moderator; in our game with him, a kid on the other team's buzzer wasn't working, so he yelled out buzz, demonstrated that it wasn't working about half the time he tried to press it, and was the only one trying to buzz, which both teams agreed with. Despite this, the moderator decided to insist that it was in MSHSAA rules he had to throw the question out. The rulebook was consulted, such a rule did not exist, and the question was thrown out anyway.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by christino » Sat May 05, 2012 7:25 pm

There was one very good moderator in room 203, I think, who read our third round. Whoever he is, I would like to thank him for making my MSHSAA experience slightly less terrible.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by cchval » Sat May 05, 2012 7:59 pm

I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by Mewto55555 » Sat May 05, 2012 8:13 pm

cchval wrote:I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.
Five rules, supposedly. I got a bit over-zealous in the finals game with an upset table slam...

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by OakvilleHSCoach » Sat May 05, 2012 8:43 pm

Just curious- was one of the moderators who staffed at state also the same moderator that staffed at my sectionals? (The North County coach's wife?) If so, in my experience, I will never agree to let her staff again.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by cchval » Sat May 05, 2012 8:55 pm

Mewto55555 wrote:
cchval wrote:I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.
Five rules, supposedly. I got a bit over-zealous in the finals game with an upset table slam...
I can't believe you didn't get ejected. I recall a very angry lecture last year about how our high-fives were detrimental to the noble game of scholar bowl. To be fair, I did swear a lot and Marc called the timekeeper a bastard once.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by bruins4life » Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Mewto55555 wrote:
cchval wrote:I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.
Five rules, supposedly. I got a bit over-zealous in the finals game with an upset table slam...
Max, I was just thinking how a few other coaches might have tried to get you thrown out of the game. It's just the nature of intense competition where we're going all out for something that we are passionate about doing well. There's not even a warning or technical foul type rule. It's automatic throwing out. It's a typical bureaucratic over-reaction. And THEN to have the conduct reminder read at the beginning of EACH game, is a total insult to our best and brightest students.

It's "you better adhere to our rules about conduct or else... we'll... we'll... throw you out of the game. Take that!" It's such a knee-jerk (pun intended) reaction to kids enjoying playing the game in the case of high fives or encouraging comments after a good buzz. Or competitors getting frustrated in the midst of heated competition (hitting tables, loud sighs... perhaps not hitting the person next to you on the shoulder or letting out an muffled expletive). Let's be honest, all of this happens in heated competition whether its poker, chess, ping pong, football or basketball. Obviously, it's not to be condoned and should be against the rules, but realistically, these things sometimes happen. Many public schools today are permissive enough to realize that any of these behaviors usually requires acknowledgment by a teacher or administrator, but also the grace and dignity to make a mistake a learning experience, not automatic ejection from the game.


On the moderators, I honestly think MSHSAA doesn't want to have to tell the current Mods "No" for the next year, so the same ones keep coming back. From the sound of it of a side-conversation that I've heard is that a couple have been doing this for over a decade. I'm going to propose a rule that State Tournament Moderators need to moderate for at least two MSHSAA sanctioned competitions to be considered qualified for State moderating. We only had trouble with one moderator with significant mispronunciations, and who said "Well, I'm no expert on the rules"... IT'S the STATE COMPETITION. If you are no expert on the rules, then you shouldn't be moderating. Seems obvious. In what other sport or activity would a referee feel comfortable saying that? The moderator even went against MSHSAA's resolving the protest at the time because the moderator was unwilling to stand up to a fairly clear superfluous challenge.

I also think it needs to be stressed to moderators that we are often NOT challenging them personally, but simply the question or the answer line. It often feels like a personal challenge, but it's not. Experienced moderators understand this, inexperienced moderators have trouble with this.

Also, I offered to moderate class 1 or 2 State for a couple of years, but was told that they didn't need me. Why not take a coach who has run multiple tournaments and knows the format of the game?

Bureaucracy at its finest. But hopefully, they can listen reason given a loud and consistent enough voice. The job they are doing isn't absymal, but it could be much better.
Last edited by bruins4life on Sun May 06, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by bruins4life » Sat May 05, 2012 9:21 pm

cchval wrote:
Mewto55555 wrote:
cchval wrote:I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.
Five rules, supposedly. I got a bit over-zealous in the finals game with an upset table slam...
I can't believe you didn't get ejected. I recall a very angry lecture last year about how our high-fives were detrimental to the noble game of scholar bowl. To be fair, I did swear a lot and Marc called the timekeeper a bastard once.

Yeah, you and Marc really did misbehave last year.

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Re: State game schedules

Post by bruins4life » Sat May 05, 2012 9:23 pm

ashkenaziCD wrote:A certain class 4 moderator is consistently horrible, yet nobody has complained about her to MSHSAA so she's always there. It's time for that to stop, because she reads the semis and third place game and is 100% incapable of pronouncing things correctly and has no involvement with quizbowl, and thus no familiarity with the rules, yet handles the game as if she's the expert. It's very unenjoyable both as a player and spectator.

Dees, not only did I complain about her, but I recommended they use a different moderator for this year. I tried to be civil, but apparently I need to be more clear.

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by cchval » Sat May 05, 2012 9:37 pm

bruins4life wrote:
cchval wrote:
Mewto55555 wrote:
cchval wrote:I can only assume the moderators didn't miss me after writing a rule specifically to combat my lack of institutional respect.
Five rules, supposedly. I got a bit over-zealous in the finals game with an upset table slam...
I can't believe you didn't get ejected. I recall a very angry lecture last year about how our high-fives were detrimental to the noble game of scholar bowl. To be fair, I did swear a lot and Marc called the timekeeper a bastard once.

Yeah, you and Marc really did misbehave last year.
Coming from the man who routinely swears in church...

I just model my in-game composure off my college's genius football coach.

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Mr. Chekhov
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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by Mr. Chekhov » Sun May 06, 2012 6:57 am

It seems strange that MSHSAA requires the hosts of districts to find their own staffers, but refuses volunteers for state, many of whom are far more capable than the current staffers. There is no excuse for poor staffing at a tournament that MSHSAA lauds as being the best tournament of the year (even if it isn't, they have an obligation to run a tournament that bears some resemblance to smoothness).

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Re: MSHSAA staff discussion

Post by L-Town Expatriate » Sun May 06, 2012 9:05 am

Mr. Chekhov wrote:It seems strange that MSHSAA requires the hosts of districts to find their own staffers, but refuses volunteers for state, many of whom are far more capable than the current staffers. There is no excuse for poor staffing at a tournament that MSHSAA lauds as being the best tournament of the year (even if it isn't, they have an obligation to run a tournament that bears some resemblance to smoothness).
If MSHSAA operated the same way for the Show-Me Bowl or any activity which gets televised on Fox Sports, there would be an uproar.

MOACA ought to consider establish a set of credentials for "qualified moderators". While we need as many people as we can helping at tournaments throughout the year, coaches should be able to fill out comments on moderators and forward them to a a committee of MOACA members. From these recommendations, a list of certified "qualified moderators" can be selected for sectionals and state.

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