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Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament 
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Post Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
Moderator note: split from MEC thread

ChippytheSavage wrote:
This is the only tournament. I wish we would do a "regular season," but there has never really been any interest in it. On another note, I think I can find the final stats for this. They may be up soon.

Doing "regular season" would mean you'd lose a whole bunch of dates to play regular tournaments, so I think you would actually not like it so much.


Last edited by Jeffrey Hill on Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

add link to original thread



Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:35 pm
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Post Re: Midland Empire Conference 2/25 2012
Charlie is right. We in the CCC lose 10 dates to conference play, so if a team wants to go to nationals, it can only attend three other tournaments. I'm probably going to cite your conference when the CCC coaches meet in the fall. I've tried in vain to implement some changes, thus far.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:40 pm
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Post Re: Midland Empire Conference 2/25 2012
ashkenaziCD wrote:
ChippytheSavage wrote:
This is the only tournament. I wish we would do a "regular season," but there has never really been any interest in it. On another note, I think I can find the final stats for this. They may be up soon.

Doing "regular season" would mean you'd lose a whole bunch of dates to play regular tournaments, so I think you would actually not like it so much.

Unless MSHSAA were to change this policy. If I were Ladbrokes, I'd put 150:1 odds on that happening.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Midland Empire Conference 2/25 2012
CentraliaCoach wrote:
Charlie is right. We in the CCC lose 10 dates to conference play, so if a team wants to go to nationals, it can only attend three other tournaments. I'm probably going to cite your conference when the CCC coaches meet in the fall. I've tried in vain to implement some changes, thus far.

Are all of these dates each against just one other school? If that's the case, weeknights or weekends, and how many matches against each team? Regardless of the MSHSAA limit, I imagine having a conference regular season like this incurs unnecessary travel expenses and time commitment* for the few games that are played.

* While absolute amount of time may be less, it seems to me the percentage of "quizbowl tournament" time spent actually competing (as opposed to traveling) would be lower.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
We start the season with a districts-like tournament, then play one team a week for nine weeks. Matches are on Thursdays. On top of sheer number of teams (10), our conference stretches from Centralia to Kahoka to Brookfield to Louisiana, so travel is very time-consuming.

But, until I can convince my fellow coaches to abandon MSHSAA format and accept 20/20 (hasn't happened so far), this is the way it is.

This reminds me of the discussion in the Truman Bowl thread. Not only are teams in the northeast apparently reluctant to jump on the 20/20, they probably have more game-consuming conference schedules compared to KC and StL area schools. Centralia, for one, will have it's 13th event when we go to the NAQT Qualifier, which means the end of our invitational season. When we can only muster a 60 game regular season (how many we played last year), it's hard to compete with teams playing up to 140 games a season.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
CentraliaCoach wrote:
But, until I can convince my fellow coaches to abandon MSHSAA format and accept 20/20 (hasn't happened so far), this is the way it is.


Although it would be great if you could convince other coaches in your conference to switch to 20/20 matches, the most damaging part of the situation seems to be the very concept of a regular season. Why not just have two tournaments, the seedings of which can be arranged so that every team plays every other team at least once (if that's important to those involved) and leave a large number of open dates untouched? This whole "we MUST build a quiz bowl schedule that looks just like a basketball schedule" mentality is counterproductive for everyone involved.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:43 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
I never really thought about it that way. I wish the MSHSAA rule could be changed to where little game series like that didn't count, but I have no say in the matter. I do like the MEC Tournament though, because it is a total round robin, so we get to see how every team in our conference is doing. A good number of them don't get out, and a few don't even come to our tournament.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
A decade ago it used to be that a singular tournament stretched over several weeks counted as one tournament, which covered conference duals (or as we had in the GKCSA, quads). When MSHSAA changed that, each week counted as a tournament, and that (along with other factors) caused its eventual demise and irrelevance.

I would like to see the quads return and mirror what Paul Nelson's done in Ohio, complete with promotion and relegation. Schools are traveling the same distance whether they're in the Mega Six, Micro Seven or whatever they call the divisions now.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:06 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
KC Suburban Conference Quads are still alive.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
I don't think we need quads. Conferences are fine, but they should only take one day to run. More people need to get used to the idea of playing Saturday tournaments instead.


Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
Quite frankly, I believe that teams do need to play Saturday tournaments, like Charlie has said upthread. Playing conference matches that take up 10 of your 13 dates is not helpful to schools that would like to play against teams like Rock Bridge at a tournament, as those dates could easily be used to compete against other teams and hear sets that tell you how much you need to improve. And quite frankly, it hurts schools that are trying to host, like Truman for example, as many schools in the northeast are running out of dates due to their match schedule.


Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:13 am
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Post Re: Conference Regular Season vs. Single Tournament
U. Lou Sthagaim wrote:
KC Suburban Conference Quads are still alive.

In that case, merely their irrelevance.


Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:17 pm
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