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State Predictions 
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Steele, MO
Post State Predictions
Class 1:
1- Pilot Grove
2- North Shelby
3- Heartland
4- Thomas Jefferson Independent
5- Mound City
6- Stanberry
7- Meadville
8- Bell City

Class 2
1- Richland
2- Barstow
3- Plattsburg
4- South Pemiscot
5- Fordland
6- College Heights Christian
7- South Shelby
8- Marceline

Class 3
1- Savannah
2- Notre Dame (Cape Gir.)
3- Centralia
4- Smithville
5- Lutheran South
6- Logan-Rogersville
7- Orchard Farm
8- Reeds Spring

Class 4
1- Ladue
2- Rock Bridge
3- Park Hill South
4- Central (Cape Gir.)
5- Rolla
6- Lee's Summit North
7- Parkway West
8- Kickapoo


Any class in particular that you guys are going to watch on Thursday and then again on Friday?


Mon May 02, 2011 4:22 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
tbh, I save my watching/caring to tournaments that are run in a good format on good questions and whose results bear some semblance of legitimacy

looks like I have to wait for nationals for that


Mon May 02, 2011 4:39 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
It's actually Friday/Saturday, not Thurs./Fri.


Mon May 02, 2011 7:29 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
Well, class 4 probably will be one to watch, but not for upset purposes; it'll just be fun to see how much Ladue can score. It's like their normal domination of Missouri quizbowl, except now Max gets 10 free (math) questions per game.


Mon May 02, 2011 8:31 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
I believe that Fordland should be included in the top 4 in class 2A, as South Pemiscot has an extremely tough schedule playing Barstow, Plattsburg, and Fordland. Richland has a similar schedule playing Barstow, Plattsburg, and College Heights. In all probability, Fordland will go 3-0 in their preliminary games.

My prediction for all the tournaments is that state records are going to fall because these questions, in my opinion, are way TOO EASY. I hope the state questions show a higher difficulty. In particular, the math questions that tell you how to solve them are ridiculously easy. I have complained to NAQT about this, but they have completely ignored me in this regard. Games in which the two teams total 840 points (out of 900) back up my complaint. Look at Ladue's district where every game totaled 840 points. Simply put, bad quiz bowl. It's just as bad as when scores are 130 to 100. So, say goodbye to many state records that were accomplished on questions that were of higher difficulty than these questions.


Tue May 03, 2011 8:08 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
High scores are a logical consequence of having 50 tossups in a game being written by a company that has mostly adopted the belief that good high school quizbowl should have very accessible tossups (especially since little else NAQT writes for has this many tossups in a game). I would in fact say that the ease has little to do with the sets being bad compared to the 300 points tied up in speedcheck tossups, the incredibly high computation and "language arts" distribution, and the interminable length of the format.


Tue May 03, 2011 11:06 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
No offense Charlie, but your continued promotion of naqt gets a little old. Do you work for them?


Tue May 03, 2011 11:41 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
I'm not promoting NAQT, I in fact think their MSHSAA sets are bad quizbowl (as I just said).


Tue May 03, 2011 11:57 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
A belief that high scores indicates a bad quizbowl format is comparable to saying we shouldn't allow more than a couple of students to score nearly perfect on assignments or tests in school anymore. After all, if every student got a 95 on the test, why is the logical assumption that the test is too easy? Why can it not be equally as valid that perhaps the questions were written well to cover the material taught and that most students actually demonstrate their knowledge of the content?

If games going to 500ish points out of 900 are what you want in quizbowl, then be prepared to defend just as vigorously a standard where the rational expectation in the classroom is for the best students to score around 60% on every test.

Also, keep in mind that the "130 to 100" games you complain about also exist, in every format. The top teams are going to score high, the lower teams are going to score low. Do you propose writing different sets of questions that will cater to every skill level? Because if we write for the median skill level, teams like Ladue are naturally going to score high numbers of points, and teams who are weaker will naturally score low numbers of points.

We expect different records to be set under different formats, no? NAQT questions are of a different format than most other question providers, just as much as playing baseball with the same rules but a different size ball would lead to different records.


Tue May 03, 2011 12:13 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
I seriously don't even know how I can have this discussion with you on reasonable terms after that infantile response. I never once shilled for NAQT in that post, and if you knew anything about my relation to NAQT you would know I routinely criticize all kinds of things they do, like how I lambasted their awful districts/sectionals set, complained over and over again about their awful old A-sets and bad ideas for questions throughout history, and their business practices I strongly disagreed with like them bidding on the MSHSAA series. If I can't even make a post attempting to explain why NAQT does something that they do, while even somewhat criticizing them, without having you come out and attack me for being a blind NAQT flunky who is only interested in furthering their financial gain, then the discussion is over.


Tue May 03, 2011 12:28 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
WilliamofOrange wrote:
Well, class 4 probably will be one to watch, but not for upset purposes; it'll just be fun to see how much Ladue can score. It's like their normal domination of Missouri quizbowl, except now Max gets 10 free (math) questions per game.


Exactly.

Mewto55555 wrote:
tbh, I save my watching/caring to tournaments that are run in a good format on good questions and whose results bear some semblance of legitimacy

looks like I have to wait for nationals for that


That too. I kinda quit caring about MSHSAA State when they suddenly stopped inviting me to work it after so many years. I'd really soured on the whole State thing long before that. It's a fatally flawed system.

I just don't want to see a repeat of the aftermath of State last year. When they thought Bill Luce had a stroke on the Monday after State (fortunately, he didn't), and I had an emergency appendectomy two days later. :?


Tue May 03, 2011 12:31 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
Stats that may interest only me.

Class 3 PPG districts through sectionals

512- Savannah
483- Centralia
468- Notre Dame (Cape Gir.)
460- Smithville
369- Lutheran South
318- Reeds Spring
305- Orchard Farm
298- Logan-Rogersville


Class 3 Combined PPG districts through sectionals (team and opponents' scores)

674- Centralia
668- Smithville
660- Savannah
656- Lutheran South
610- Notre Dame
542- Logan-Rogersville
525- Orchard Farm
523- Reeds Spring

Did I spend too much time putting these together? Yes. Do they definitively point to who will be state champion? No. I do think they show that class 3 will be competitive and a lot of fun to watch.


Tue May 03, 2011 1:00 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
CentraliaCoach wrote:
Stats that may interest only me.

Class 3 PPG districts through sectionals

512- Savannah
483- Centralia
468- Notre Dame (Cape Gir.)
460- Smithville
369- Lutheran South
318- Reeds Spring
305- Orchard Farm
298- Logan-Rogersville


Class 3 Combined PPG districts through sectionals (team and opponents' scores)

674- Centralia
668- Smithville
660- Savannah
656- Lutheran South
610- Notre Dame
542- Logan-Rogersville
525- Orchard Farm
523- Reeds Spring

Did I spend too much time putting these together? Yes. Do they definitively point to who will be state champion? No. I do think they show that class 3 will be competitive and a lot of fun to watch.


Nice. I definitely agree that Class 3 will be very competitive, especially with the dumb matches they have set up in the morning rounds.


Tue May 03, 2011 4:12 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
Sorry, but I'm not horribly upset to see the demise of records set on such excellent questions as "This novel is regarded as one of the great romance novels of all time."


Tue May 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
scphilli wrote:
It's actually Friday/Saturday, not Thurs./Fri.


Sorry about that, modest mistake.

Quote:
I believe that Fordland should be included in the top 4 in class 2A, as South Pemiscot has an extremely tough schedule playing Barstow, Plattsburg, and Fordland. Richland has a similar schedule playing Barstow, Plattsburg, and College Heights. In all probability, Fordland will go 3-0 in their preliminary games.


Of course I believe that Fordland will be tough competition. Class 2 was a really hard guess. I talked with the coach from South Pemiscot and he said that the team has tremendously improved since we saw them at the NAQT Qualifier in Columbia. I don't doubt one bit that Fordland will probably be in the top 4, but I'm unsure about how South Pemiscot will perform and just how much they have "improved".

Quote:
Stats that may interest only me.

Class 3 PPG districts through sectionals

512- Savannah
483- Centralia
468- Notre Dame (Cape Gir.)
460- Smithville
369- Lutheran South
318- Reeds Spring
305- Orchard Farm
298- Logan-Rogersville


Class 3 Combined PPG districts through sectionals (team and opponents' scores)

674- Centralia
668- Smithville
660- Savannah
656- Lutheran South
610- Notre Dame
542- Logan-Rogersville
525- Orchard Farm
523- Reeds Spring

Did I spend too much time putting these together? Yes. Do they definitively point to who will be state champion? No. I do think they show that class 3 will be competitive and a lot of fun to watch.


I definitely think that class 3 will be a show. I saw Cape Notre Dame in action at the Cape Central tournament this year. They are fast when it comes to tossups, but I doubt they will be fast enough to beat Savannah. I'm unsure if they could beat Centralia, because I have actually never seen you guys play. Your stats, however, look impressive. Its safe to say that Notre Dame's weakness is math, regardless of the level of difficulty.


Best of luck to all teams.


Tue May 03, 2011 5:54 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
octo wrote:
Sorry, but I'm not horribly upset to see the demise of records set on such excellent questions as "This novel is regarded as one of the great romance novels of all time."

And tossups where, despite the state's rule that there not be 50/50 tossups, somehow invoke that anyway. Parkway could have kept Liberty waiting another two years had they said W and not K. (Or was that K and not W?)


Tue May 03, 2011 10:09 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
L-Town Expatriate wrote:
octo wrote:
Sorry, but I'm not horribly upset to see the demise of records set on such excellent questions as "This novel is regarded as one of the great romance novels of all time."

And tossups where, despite the state's rule that there not be 50/50 tossups, somehow invoke that anyway. Parkway could have kept Liberty waiting another two years had they said W and not K. (Or was that K and not W?)


No one knows what you're talking about, and no one cares. And no one ever will.


Wed May 04, 2011 1:05 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
Coach Brown wrote:
No offense Charlie, but your continued promotion of naqt gets a little old. Do you work for them?


Charlie was (and I have many contemporaenous communications with him backing up this fact) one of the first people who did NOT want NAQT to take this contract with MSHSAA, so to say his "continued promotion of naqt gets a little old" is wholly misplaced. Charlie was one of the first to realize that having NAQT write in what is essentially a dead format as the MSHSAA format is, is a waste of everyone's time. It wastes NAQT's time and efforts, it wastes the time of the players and coaches who think this is now somehow a legit event, and it wastes the time and energy of those running it.

Second, I love how you say "No offense" and then state things in a truly mocking manner so as to indicate offense. You are such a worthless dipwad for acting that way but to further illustrate my feelings:

While we're on the subject of what gets old Mr. Brown I'd like to address one thing. Your use of the current format to aggrandize yourself and your charges is what gets old to me. I find you a relic of a byegone era for a reason. You have done absolutely nothing but reinforce a format that perpetuates a myth that you are somehow a capable coach since your team just beats up on slightly comparable ones repeatedly and in only one tournament a year, the one Charlie calls into question I might add. I have sat and listened to you but you don't actually care about the children on your team or you wouldn't use them for your own aggrandizement and instead you would actually teach them which is your actual job. You would actually subject them to tournaments where they'd have to deal with teams that are form larger schools and you would actually show up to help them at said tournaments. All you do is take and take and take from them to feed your own ego which is dangerously bloated as from where I sit you contribute nothing to them or to any of us. I find absolutely nothing about you to be redemptive since you do nothing to actually give back to this community, and the faster people realize what a fraud you are of a person the better off we all are.


Last edited by scphilli on Wed May 04, 2011 1:35 am, edited 3 times in total.



Wed May 04, 2011 1:14 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
Jeff let's just head off this flame war and split this topic?


Wed May 04, 2011 1:16 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
Oh! I have another prediction!

Questionwise, the pyramidal rounds are slightly better, but as expected, cutting one part out of a bonus swings difficulty wildly. Also, speedchecks still suck. Still, no protests are needed, huzzah!


Sat May 07, 2011 6:00 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
Congratulations to Ladue's outstanding sophomore Max Schindler. He broke the individual record with 135 tossups in 5 games, an average of 27 per game.
This record had stood since 1997. Truly, an amazing performance. I thought this record would never be broken.

His team also broke the all-time total points record held by Savannah by over 300 points. Congratulations to a great team!


Sat May 07, 2011 8:29 pm
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Post Re: State Predictions
It's funny that by the player's own stats he only had 134 tu's which he confirmed by looking at the scoresheets, which tells me that your skills at basic math are less than what you expect of your players. But I guess what really matters is getting medals for the tournament all-stars in time for the tournament. Oh wait, nope. You can't be relied on for that one job you have as vp of MACA, and in fact you give me reason to the dues for once to unseat yoursefl. Instead you have to incur extra shipping charges since those medals have to go to at least 20 schools. I'm glad you're one of our luminaries, despite in having no way earned it, and in no way having actually competently done anything that anyone expected you to. You are truly just such an inspiration. Kisses XOXO.


Thu May 12, 2011 12:27 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
scphilli wrote:
It's funny that by the player's own stats he only had 134 tu's which he confirmed by looking at the scoresheets,


I only saw 3 of the scoresheets, so it's entirely possible Coach Brown has the right numbers.


Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 am
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Post Re: State Predictions
He also said at the medal ceremony that while it's his job to coordinate medals, someone else was supposed to have done the actual ordering and that fell through.


Thu May 12, 2011 7:23 am
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