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Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Discussion of quizbowl topics not related to specific tournaments
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Machina
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Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 am

This'll be my effort to somewhat gauge how quiz bowl in Missouri will end up next year, with so many QB'ers graduating this year. I hope this will open up a discussion about what the field will look like next year, since we never had a real final ranking this year.

Here's the top ten list from this year:
1. Ladue Horton Watkins
2. Parkway Central A
3. North Kansas City
4. Clayton
5. Priory
6. Savannah
7. Villa Duchesne
8. Hickman
9. St. Louis University
10. Fort Zumwalt West

Honorable mentions:
Eureka
Parkway Central B
Park Hill South
Pilot Grove
Holden
Truman
Richland

Here are the teams that are losing seniors who are vital to the success of the team. (teams I know nothing about due to the fact that I've never played them include PHS, Holden, Truman, and Richland):
Ladue (Zach, Sam)
PCH A and B (Chris, Ammar, Liron, Nick...the list goes on and on)
NKC (Grant)
Priory (Tod)
Villa (Erica, Rachel, Stephanie)
Hickman (Adam)
SLUH (Patrick, Jack, Luke, Brian)
Eureka (Jason)
PG (Levi M)

Here are the teams I believe will be top-tier competitors next year:
Ladue (they retain Zev, who's their top player at the moment)
Clayton (Ikshuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu)
Priory (Zach and Richard are still there)
Savannah (Austin's still about)
Villa (me and my buddies are still here)
SLUH (even with the seniors gone, Morgan and Logan will do some damage)
FZW (DYLAN)
Eureka (Will's still around)

Any thoughts?

logic2718
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by logic2718 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:56 am

Machina wrote:Ikshuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
...
Any thoughts?
Every time I answer a question, I should get another "u."

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Mewto55555
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Mewto55555 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:20 am

Machina wrote: Ladue (they retain Zev, who's their top player at the moment)
Ouch.

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dividebyzero
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by dividebyzero » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:53 am

Machina wrote: Here are the teams that are losing seniors who are vital to the success of the team
...
PCH A and B (Chris, Ammar, Liron, Nick...the list goes on and on)
As this is obviously the team I know best, I'll leave a comment or two. I think Sabrina's completely right about a lot of key players leaving PCH. We're talking at least 6 of our top players having been seniors this past year. Additionally, we had maybe one or two [and only one who made a decent showing] active juniors last year, so unless we recruit some more expect to play a pretty young and somewhat inexperienced [at least on a varsity level] team next year.

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:36 am

I'd agree with most of the above. Having seen a good portion of the NKC team at ACE camp, I wouldn't be quick to rule them out just because Grant is gone. I do think it would be inappropriate to make any predictions about our team until we get some actual playing time.

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ZhangC1459
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ZhangC1459 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:25 am

IMO, PCHA doesn't have much hope this year unless there's some ungodly Dees-like freshman we don't know about, because our recruitment has never been that successful and as Ammar said, we only have one or two active juniors at the moment.

But we did have fun with an all-senior team and stuff at nats :D

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Machina
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:45 pm

Max, I've only played you once on NAQT questions many months ago, and I've never seen how you and Zev play together. I'm just going off what I've seen of Zev You did fantastically at HSNCT in Zev's absence and I think you and he will make next year's Ladue team awesome.

Ikshu, that could happen. Every time you get a power on a science (preferably chem) TU, I'll add another 'u' to your name.

PCH...I think you'll still win some games, but with the loss of pretty much the entire team that went to HSNCT, this will probably be a rebuilding year.

NKC is something I've been thinking a lot about. Joel and Forrest especially could make this a nontrivial year. However, since I've never played NKC without Grant, I can't judge how the team will do sans him.

JCHS can only get better from here. Sam, your determination, exemplified by going to ACE camp, will catapult your team to doing really well at good tournaments this year.

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:18 pm

I was in room 5 at ACE the whole time whereas Forrest, Joel, and Selena were all around room 4. Granted, my practice room performance was consistently overshadowed by my tournament dominance, but it's still worth noting.

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ChippytheSavage
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ChippytheSavage » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:51 pm

We played NKC without Grant at Smithville (QG) and it was pretty close. Joel and Sierra are both pretty good. Just thought I would put in my say.

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Mewto55555
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Mewto55555 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:44 pm

Ladue loses Zach, Lukas, and Sam, but we still retain 2.5 of our starters (Zev, Aojia, and myself). Also, some of our incoming freshmen are pretty bright which will give us a good B team.

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dividebyzero
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by dividebyzero » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:49 pm

It just occurred to me that perhaps this thread should be moved to General Discussion. Just a suggestion, not actually sure.

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ChippytheSavage
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ChippytheSavage » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:03 pm

We are keeping everyone but Robert, so I think we will still be solid.

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Jeffrey Hill
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Jeffrey Hill » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:12 pm

dividebyzero wrote:It just occurred to me that perhaps this thread should be moved to General Discussion. Just a suggestion, not actually sure.
Yeah, good call. Totally didn't notice that... :?

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ChippytheSavage
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ChippytheSavage » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:56 pm

ChippytheSavage wrote:We played NKC without Grant at Smithville (QG) and it was pretty close. Joel and Sierra are both pretty good. Just thought I would put in my say.
Just thought I would add to this that NKC is also losing Mr. Allen, so it may be tough, just like when we lost Luce. But I bet they will pull through it.

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:43 pm

A bit more on mid-MO schools:

JCHS loses captain Uday, which honestly only hurts us on trash (though I have to say he killed at movies). Count on the vast majority of scoring coming from Isaac and myself, with other teammates mainly contributing on science and general knowledge. For those who care about the specifics: Isaac is working on history, which I think he can get pretty good at, and will also get most of the trash. I'm covering RMP and fine arts. Lit will just be free-for-all. I can get some astronomy and other science, and our seniors will probably pick some up from schoolwork as the year progresses.

Helias loses most of its top players, most notably Stephen Rehagen and captain Megan Distler, but retains rising junior Nick Vellios, their top scorer on good questions. From what I recall he is best at RMP and some science, plus geography. The second best returning player is most likely Brian Oxenhandler, who I recall getting some lit. Nick put up >30 ppg at HSNCT, so he is a legitimately good player, for those in doubt.

All I know of Columbia schools is that Hickman loses captain Adam Sperber, who was their best player on QG questions. Dees can probably give us the scoop on Rock Bridge. Anything else nearby I know even less about. Hopefully we'll see some nearby talent at our tournament in the fall, though.

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Machina
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:51 pm

I know Rock Bridge loses Alan and Chase, but retains Craig, so they should do pretty well.

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dividebyzero
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by dividebyzero » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:40 pm

Machina wrote:I know Rock Bridge loses Alan and Chase, but retains Craig, so they should do pretty well.
Assuming they have someone to cover science. From talking to Craig right before the singles tournament at Mizzou and from playing him in the first round of the same, I gather that he can do lit [and maybe history, don't remember], but science wasn't his strong suit. But yeah, Sam's right. You'd probably want to ask Dees for better detail on the team. (Unless of course they have some players on the board? Can't think of any myself, but there might be. If not, we should introduce them [and other teams lacking reps here] as it's a great resource. But that's a discussion to be had elsewhere...)

logic2718
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by logic2718 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:47 pm

Everyone's lacking science players...oh woe is ye...

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dividebyzero
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by dividebyzero » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:04 pm

As in all the good science players left after last year, or they were never there?
Honestly, I never payed much attention to how well other teams did with science. It was probably our strongest subject, but that's because pretty much everyone on our team took a lot of upper level science courses. Wasn't something we had to study much extra for, and hopefully that thread can continue with our team in the future (in general, the science department is decently comprehensive).
Though I'm pretty sure some of you guys must have good science players. It's not like we dominated the subject last year...

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ZhangC1459
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ZhangC1459 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:28 am

Yeah, there's definitely science stuff that we either got beaten to by the other team or just missed entirely. Granted, I don't think it was our only strong suit... hehe... but it certainly helped a lot.

I want to see how this all turns out... means I'm gonna be staffing lots of tournaments this year for high schools, haha

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:51 am

Yes! Top of the honorable mention list! Considering our shoddy-at-best performances on NAQT question sets, that's not bad XD. In addition:
Machina wrote: Here are the teams that are losing seniors who are vital to the success of the team.
...
Eureka (Jason)
It's true, a significant chunk of our points come from Jason, particularly on bonuses (since he's very smart but not the fastest buzzer haha). As much as he did this last year, we should be even better next year. Mostly because besides Jason and I last year, all of the other members of our team (about 8 or 9 people) were sophomores, and almost all of them played freshman year, too. As a result, we'll have a great crop of experienced juniors to pick from for the A team, as well as a phenomenal B team (except the whole "juniors can't play JV" thing... the entire JV team will be first-years.) Now it just comes down to who has tried the hardest since then for varsity team placement.

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Charlie Dees
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:13 pm

I'm very late to this, but
Here's the top ten list from this year:
1. Ladue Horton Watkins
2. Parkway Central A
3. North Kansas City
4. Clayton
5. Priory
6. Savannah
7. Villa Duchesne
8. Hickman
9. St. Louis University
10. Fort Zumwalt West

Honorable mentions:
Eureka
Parkway Central B
Park Hill South
Pilot Grove
Holden
Truman
Richland
I think I'll put in a plug for Rock Bridge being somewhere in the 5-8 range for last year on this list after they got 2nd at NAQT state and beat NKC and Villa Duchesne at Pre-Nats. Also, Cape Girardeau Central is probably top 10 as well, certainly honorable mention, and Helias's NAQT state title showed they are top 10.

For this season, I would expect some of the following:
Based on what I know about how teams prepare for the game and who they are returning, I would say 4 of the top 5 teams, at least in the beginning of the year, are going to be Clayton, Ladue, Villa Duchesne, and Fort Zumwalt West. Of these teams, I think I give Clayton the slight edge, but there's no real telling, because at nationals last year most of the teams from Missouri seemed really statistically indistinguishable, and with a little hard work from anyone that top spot could be taken. Nationals showed that there are still lots of areas for improvement that Missouri teams could benefit to work on. Fortunately, there are examples of teams literally jumping 98 spots in the HSNCT rankings from one year to the next (LASA in 2007 went 4-6 and placed 105th, in 2008 LASA tied for 7th), and I think a lot of players in Missouri want to do much better this time around, so I have hopes players can channel that energy and we can see some real big improvements this year. As for that last spot in the top 5, I am intentionally leaving it blank both because I am unsure what team would fill it (Savannah? NKC? Eureka?) and because it's entirely possible for someone we've never heard of to take it. I can't emphasize this enough, if you are a team that wants to put in the work on pyramidal questions, you could very well win the NAQT state title this year even if nobody on your team has played before.

To specifically address NKC - they do have a new coach this year, Mr. Tuan Nguyen. He was their chaperone at the HSNCT, so he has seen good quizbowl in action. Also, 3/4ths of the A team roster from last year is returning (for another 2 years, half of them for 3), and considering that they had to play next to Grant all last year, some of their numbers indicated they are no slouches, and they have an institutionalized use of good quizbowl packets to prepare, so I think they very well could be a competitive team this year, especially if Mr. Nguyen takes them out to a lot of stuff. As much as I hate seeing the best coach in Missouri history leave, I have high hopes that Nguyen can take up the mantle.

All the mystery surrounding who could do well this year actually makes me really look forward to seeing all the events this year play out, because I really can't in good faith say I think any one team will be the best in the state at the end of the year. I do hope that this time around we can get you top teams to come to NAQT state where we can see you all play against each other in one field. March 5th, block the date out on your calendar! It's going to be pretty awesome, and good luck to teams at everything else inbetween now and then!

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:15 pm

Hey Sabrina, how did you guys do at nationals anyway? I trust you made a good showing (Oh and Clayton/Ladue, same goes to you.)

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Machina
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:31 am

We actually beat Rock Bridge in our last game at HSNCT, so we went 5-5. Basically everyone had the same record. :D

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ChippytheSavage » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Machina wrote:We actually beat Rock Bridge in our last game at HSNCT, so we went 5-5. Basically everyone had the same record. :D
:( Fail

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Charlie Dees
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:22 pm

WilliamofOrange wrote:Hey Sabrina, how did you guys do at nationals anyway? I trust you made a good showing (Oh and Clayton/Ladue, same goes to you.)
Here are the statistics from the HSNCT - http://naqt.com/stats/tournament-teams. ... nt_id=3215

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:07 pm

So in summary, everyone was *this* close to making the playoffs? Haha, thanks Charlie. Looking at the individual scores, you guys did great :D

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ZhangC1459 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:04 am

WilliamofOrange wrote:So in summary, everyone was *this* close to making the playoffs? Haha, thanks Charlie. Looking at the individual scores, you guys did great :D
yeah, that's the same record PCH got the year before... i think we actually dropped a little in terms of overall national rankings but everyone did very well considering the state of quiz bowl in MO, from what I heard.

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Charlie Dees
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:25 pm

Now that the first tournament of the year is underway, I'd say this is worth revisiting.

Ladue certainly made a statement win yesterday, and their numbers show this is a team that is an actual great quizbowl team that is far advanced from where Ladue was at any other point ever. Their incredibly improved power count says a lot about how good this team is - they put up better power statistics than anybody in an MOQBA event. I believe they also put up a higher points per bonus, at over 18 (not counting A-sets). Ladue was even missing Zev, the player who led their team in scoring at Mizzou Fall last year. While I would assume the incredible improvements Max has made make him solidly the best player on this team, Zev is certainly going to make them that much stronger when he plays. It's clear that Ladue takes quizbowl more seriously now, and I can only hope that will mean they will come to more tournaments. This is a team that is on the trajectory to become one of the very best teams in the country by the time Max graduates, and even though they aren't at that point right now, I think they showed that they are the team to beat in Missouri this year.

Villa Duchesne did around how I expected. I think if Sabrina wants to stay dominant she is going to have to very much be on her toes and trying to get more powers - contrast the 2 from Villa in the prelims with Max's 17. Villa is still doing very well right now, but they have work a lot to catch up with Ladue, and from what I saw it's very possible some unexpected teams might eclipse them too before the year is done (and oh, what a wonderful sign that is for our circuit improving when a player as good as Sabrina has to really be working to stay on top). If they can find a way to make their power count go up and get a higher points/bonus count, this team will stay very competitive. My advice: be crazy aggressive from here on out.

Considering that Rock Bridge graduated their top scorer Alan (who wasn't just their top scorer, he was getting 60-70 ppg at most stuff), I think they showed a tremendous amount of improvement yesterday. They also cracked 18 points/bonus in the prelims, took Ladue into a tiebreaker, were 1-1 against Villa, and were 40 points away from being undefeated. Given that it's only the beginning of the season and they have already caught up that much, I think their performance merits them being discussed as a top tier team right now.

Clayton took a lot of us by surprise - without Ikshu, they had a very good day. They beat Rock Bridge by 30 points, took down NKC by a wide margin, had everyone on their team score at least 19 ppg (the most balance I've seen in a long time on a solid team) and they are returning 3/4ths of that team next year, I believe. We already know Ikshu is good, but now we know his supporting cast has a lot of potential too. What will determine how much this impacts Clayton's final ranking is that the teammates need to learn to focus on things that Ikshu doesn't already know well. If they can focus their energy into those subjects, that could be the difference between Clayton being a strong local team and Clayton being the best team in the state, capable of having a deep run at nationals.

Equally striking to me though were the improvements I saw in second tier teams, both in how they approach the game and just how well they were performing.

Jefferson City, with Sam at the helm, has gotten way improved in a little over a semester - here are some of his team's stats from February. They're not quite there yet, but if Jefferson City keeps it up they could be breaking into the top tier by the end of the season. Hopefully playing those Illinois teams will give them something to bring back to the local circuit.

Oakville's coach and team have a really commendable attitude, and in the span of a year they have produced a team with plenty of potential (especially, as I understand it, because they were missing some players). North Shelby, Centralia and Hickman were also putting on similar performances that bode well for their ability to compete against other teams such as Eureka, SLUH, Parkway North, and who knows who else. Their performances were way stronger than the past Mizzou Fall tournaments' middle tier teams were, and I think any one of these teams could make a real leap if they put in the work and could get really good. This is really really exciting to see teams at this level improving.

NKC is also second tier at this point - however, their undefeated record in the middle bracket and strong statistics (3rd highest points/bonus in the field, better power count than Villa Duchesne) and their incredibly young team with no seniors and lots of sophomores is a really good sign for them. I fully admit I may have biased, wishful thinking, but I think this team could really be very good with just a little more work, and a lot more experience. Look out for them.

I really can't think of a year when there have been more teams putting up performances worth talking about (and with other top players not even having any stats to look at yet), this is an incredible sign for Missouri's future, so good work every one of you coaches and players who are getting your teams so far improved. I'm curious to hear what others think about the upcoming year

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:28 pm

I'll go ahead and mostly agree with Charlie: I believe the major teams to beat this year will be Ladue, Ikshu-led Clayton, and Rock Bridge. All of these teams seemed greatly improved from last year, a trend I'm betting will continue. While on one hand, teams currently around their level (Villa, anyone absent from MFAT that my lack of experience prevents me from knowing about) or a step or two below (NKC, Jefferson City, North Shelby, Oakville, etc.) could join this group if they really put the time in, on the other hand, any complacency on the part of these other teams will cause them to be quickly left in the dust. Missouri should be improving very rapidly this year.

EDIT: FZW is a likely addition to that upper echelon, but they're a special case anyway, so... meh.

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Machina
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:14 pm

From what I saw on Saturday and previous experience, Ladue and Clayton con Ikshu are the best right now. Ladue, with Max at the helm, is going to dominate the circuit, though not without competition. An Ikshu-less Clayton beat Rock Bridge on Saturday, and having played against Ikshu as many times as I have, I know that they will be a force to reckon with this year. Rock Bridge is also incredibly solid, especially considering their near victory over Ladue and all the work they did over the summer. NKC really impressed me as well, with 3 players scoring over 25 PPG. They obviously have a huge hole to fill with Grant gone, but they're doing spectacularly. JCHS, without hyperbole, has made the biggest improvement out of anyone. Sam's dedication to get better has produced awesome results. Villa's got some work to do to stay where they are, but suffice it to say that with such a vast array of high-level teams in the circuit, I'm more motivated than ever to improve and give everyone the competition they deserve.

EDIT: Oh FZW...you're the wild card. Dylan is a beast. I wish that he could have played at MFAT instead of staffed. He's definitely up there with Ladue, Clayton, RB, and Villa.

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:36 pm

I motion to truncate "Clayton with Ikshu" and other variations to just "Clayton", and use some form of "Ikshu-less Clayton" to denote the special case in which Ikshu isn't there.

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:39 pm

WilliamofOrange wrote:I motion to truncate "Clayton with Ikshu" and other variations to just "Clayton", and use some form of "Ikshu-less Clayton" to denote the special case in which Ikshu isn't there.
Seconded. I believe Clayton will play with Ikshu more often than not.

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by logic2718 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:28 pm

Well, I'm sitting out October due to debate. so I won't be present at SLUH either. However, after October, I'll be playing all the Quiz Bowl tournaments I can. So yeah, you can refer to Ikshu-less Clayton for a while longer. But that will end soon.

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:47 pm

http://hsqbrank.wordpress.com/2010/10/2 ... te-top-70/

Missouri teams have made Fred Morlan's ongoing season rankings. Ladue is 51st and Rock Bridge is 57th (erroneously listed as having finished second at MFAT, but I think Fred is going more by PPG and PPB than placing anyway).

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Machina
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Machina » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:19 pm

I think Fred might have been looking at the prelim stats (http://results.scobo.net/SQBS.aspx?org= ... =standings) as opposed to the overall stats (http://results.scobo.net/SQBS.aspx?org= ... =standings).

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:48 am

Oakville's full A team is obviously quite talented this year. The thing that struck me most about their success yesterday is that they did much better than the other teams I saw on history, which is a subject that a lot of teams traditionally lack a lot of depth in. If you are trying to get good at quizbowl, getting lockdown categories is going to make it a lot easier for you to do consistently well and pull off upsets. It makes it that much easier when the categories you get good at are overlooked by the rest of the circuit for whatever reason - in history's case, I think a lot of people think that what comes up in their classes will cover enough of it that they can coast off that and focus on learning other things, making it ripe for exploitation. Oakville put this into practice and the results just paid off for them. Other developing teams could definitely benefit from following that path.

Villa played very well too, as always. I actually was discussing with Matt Weiner the history of all-girls school teams in quizbowl, and there are almost no notable historical teams from all-girl schools that either of us could think of beyond a team that made the playoffs at a Chip Beall tournament a long time ago. That means it's eminently possible that Villa Duchesne is the best girls school team in the history of quizbowl, which is pretty cool. Also, Villa only had three players yesterday, which was very cool. I'm glad that more teams are picking up on the concept of playing tournaments and being competitive whether you can field a full team or not. When I was in high school my team was almost the only one from Missouri that would show up at tournaments with partial teams. There are all kinds of teams that I have heard of who simply will not sign up for a tournament they can't bring a full team to, and I think that the mentality to bring any player along to a tournament that wants to go regardless of how full the team is will be more beneficial in the long run, so I'm glad to see more teams doing it, and doing well in spite of it.

Clayton also is definitely growing a program. Their A team did really well yesterday despite not having Ikshu or half of the team that they brought to Mizzou, and their B team had a young player named Appi who made the all-tournament team, and who I read for when they upset Eureka, where Appi was definitely getting some good buzzes. He could be a really good player if he sticks with it, and Clayton looks to have a good future.

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ChippytheSavage
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by ChippytheSavage » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:55 pm

St. Joseph Central has a new team this year. They are really excited about it and are all studying hard. Liberty North I am pretty sure is getting a team this year. Does anyone else know of any other new schools/new teams this year? Also, if these two teams are added to the field and Savannah's enrollment is down, could that push us back down into Class 3? Our could it at least switch up Class 4 Districts 15 and 16?

Currently:

District 15-
Fort Osage
Liberty
NKC
Oak Park
Park Hill
Park Hill South
William Chrisman
Winnetonka

District 16-
St. Joe Benton
Excelsior Springs
Kearney
St. Joe Lafayette
Platte County
Savannah
Staley

If Liberty North gets put into Dst. 15, then it would be the biggest district in Class 4. However, Dst. 14 and Dst. 13 are less competitive than 15 and 16. Maybe MSHSAA would switch up Sectional 7 and 8 in Class 4:potentially moving Savannah, NKC, Liberty, and Park Hill South our of the same sectional. Just a thought. :roll:

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:24 pm


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Charlie Dees
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:18 pm


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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charlie Dees » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:33 pm

Since we are now into semester 2 and have had the midseason ballot all wrapped up, anyone have any new opinions or predictions here? How accurate do people think the ballot rankings were?

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Mewto55555 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:46 pm

I mean, if what I've heard about them is accurate, FZW was underranked (I for one did not place them on my ballot as I had no idea whatsoever where they go, and it looks like many did likewise). I suppose we will see at WUHSAC.

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:08 pm

FZW being underranked is my only real complaint with the poll. They should be #2 or #3.

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by logic2718 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:14 pm

octo wrote:FZW being underranked is my only real complaint with the poll. They should be #2 or #3.
yeah I didn't really know how to deal with the FZW issue. If I ranked it based on how good I know Dylan to be, I would've put them at #1 or #2. However, they were not listed on any of the stats pages shown on the polling page, and the only other tournament I knew from prior knowledge that they went to was GIT. Regardless, there wasn't a lot of data to go off of and I felt that they were technically impossible to rank due to the lack of information, low number of tournament stats that I had seen online, and lack of competition against other MO teams. Once they start going to things and Dylan's owning people left and right, then I'll feel fine putting them #1/2 like I believe they deserve.
(Also, if there were actually a lot of tournaments they went to that I forgot about feel free to bring those to my attention; I don't keep tabs on the Quiz Bowl community as much as I should so I could've overlooked something)

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:34 am

On the voting topic, how do you accurately measure the skill of a team when they have impressive bonus conversion but not a particularly high ppg to match? I'm thinking of Ladue B at Tiger Bowl, specifically. Perhaps their ppg was artificially forced downward by being in difficult brackets the entire day (prelims with Clayton A and Helias A, obviously difficult playoff bracket) but their 18.6 ppb there is one of the best performances in the state for that particular stat line.

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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by Charbroil » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:01 pm

WilliamofOrange wrote:On the voting topic, how do you accurately measure the skill of a team when they have impressive bonus conversion but not a particularly high ppg to match? I'm thinking of Ladue B at Tiger Bowl...
I believe Ladue B included some of their A team players. On a general note, you just take into account their schedule (like you did) to see if their PPG is because of how good they are as a team, or because of their quality of opposition. .

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WilliamofOrange
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by WilliamofOrange » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:22 pm

Charbroil wrote:I believe Ladue B included some of their A team players.
So should we be rating schools with multiple teams on the assumption that their A team would simply be their best 4 players, their B team would be their next 4 best players, and so on? If not, there's some inherent difficulty and even impossibility in rating teams that switch up their rosters. I'm not knocking the system, since ratings are fun regardless of their accuracy, but it's just a thought.

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:55 pm

I don't really get the argument that FZW doesn't get ranked because they haven't played as much--it's supposed to be a ranking of how good the teams are, not how well they've done in tournaments. Also,
Charlie wrote: Please do not... submit ballots that are actively excluding teams that you may suspect are in the top 10 simply because you haven't seen them play or whatever...
Then again, it's just a poll, so it doesn't really matter.

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dividebyzero
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by dividebyzero » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:06 pm

Somewhat of a technicality, but "because you haven't seen them play" is different (and quite possibly had different intent) than "because they haven't played."
[not weighing in on this particular scenario, just pointing out the distinction for general situations]

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octo
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Re: Missouri Quiz Bowl in 2010-2011

Post by octo » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:25 pm

As long as we're discussing technicalities, Dylan played at GIT.

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