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Bykowski Rating System 
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 1039
Post Bykowski Rating System
So, in case you guys didn't know (I certainly didn't), David Bykowski (Byko) is back to doing his ratings of Missouri teams. As of now, however, the ratings are somewhat sparse as a result of lack of information, and thus I was hoping that people could submit their tournament results to his email at byko@verizon.net.

Tournaments missing (right off of the top of my head) include:

Two Saints
MS&T Fall
Tiger Bowl
Truman sKnow Bowl
NKC NAQT
LSN tournament
Smithville
Washington

And the list goes on...

While the current situation (we're ranked 2nd in the state) is rather nice from my perspective, nevertheless, I think it would be preferable to get some more updated information. Thus, do please send in that info. Even partial data (lacking scores, or just from playoff rounds) would be greatly appreciated, at least by me.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89143/'>Charbroil</a>, Jan 26 2009, 10:53:08 AM.</div>


Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:45 am
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Edgewater, MD
Post Bykowski Rating System
Indeed, I'm getting things organized--I spent a while trying to get a good interface set up to handle leagues. Now that that's done, there's much more data to be entered (after having caught up on just about everything in Ohio).

I'll go through what's posted on here starting today until it's done. If there are things not included on here, please feel free to e-mail me. The e-mail address is on the ratings website:

Byko's Quiz Bowl Quotients

Thanks for your patience.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:48 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 874
Post Bykowski Rating System
David,

Thanks for doing that! I had not looked at the site at all this year. Thanks for reminding me.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:31 am
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Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 212
Post Bykowski Rating System
I can probably get a copy of the results from the sKnow Bowl by Wednesday or Thursday.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:38 pm
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007
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Location: Edgewater, MD
Post Bykowski Rating System
Excellent--thanks.

I've gone through everything I could get for Missouri here on the board. A few things I still need:

1. Clear scores from Two Saints Conference. I have some scores, but the data aren't always matching up with the standings that are posted, plus there are some areas (like the entire Saint Louis County B Division) that I have no scores at all. Plus I'm really confused by the playoffs: how was Marquette in both A Playoffs and B Playoffs and then all of a sudden, they were gone at the end, as was Parkway North? Just need a good, clear, easy-to-follow set of scores on these--varsity only, as last year's attempt at JV proved that there isn't enough connectivity to really be able to include JV teams.

2. I need something from North Kansas City's NAQT tournament, Lee's Summit North, and Smithville--I really have nothing useful for any of these, so they are not included at all.

3. If there's anything else you know of that isn't on here, chances are that I don't know about it either--Missouri is several hundred miles away from me, and I don't have the time to scour the net randomly for scores or to send e-mails to throngs of people. But please feel free to e-mail me with such data.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:29 pm
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Posts: 212
Post Bykowski Rating System
Byko wrote:
2. I need something from North Kansas City's NAQT tournament, Lee's Summit North, and Smithville--I really have nothing useful for any of these, so they are not included at all.
That would explain why we aren't even on the map...those are three tournaments that we have gone to. The fourth is the sKnow Bowl, and results will be coming.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:42 pm
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 874
Post Bykowski Rating System
That is an interesting rating system. No one would ever believe that CBC is better than FZW based on an accurate rating system.


We don't have the Two Saints private school section in there. CBC lost to SLUH. I am not sure what happened with their playoffs. Mr. Sothers (De Smet) never gave me full statiscs involving that wing of Two Saints.

I do appreciate the effort, David. I am not sure how accurate it is, but it is certainly interesting.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89041/'>FZW Coach</a>, Jan 26 2009, 05:53:07 PM.</div>


Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:52 pm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 1039
Post Bykowski Rating System
Mr. Bykowski,

I emailed you the complete Two Saints results. By the way, the issue with Marquette was that they dropped out of the tournament spontaneously after the first playoff round, and thus games against them weren't counted for tournament purposes. I don't know what you'll want to do with those results--I think that they're still valid, but it's your choice.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:03 pm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007
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Post Bykowski Rating System
FZW Coach wrote:
That is an interesting rating system. No one would ever believe that CBC is better than FZW based on an accurate rating system.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you that you're better than CBC...but they did beat you at Washington, and Savannah at Hancock.

Just throwing that out there...

In any case, results are only partially in. I'm sure that once more results come in, rankings will change.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89143/'>Charbroil</a>, Jan 26 2009, 06:06:47 PM.</div>


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
Is a 5-pt win really a win when the winning score is only 200 points? If it is, then both teams really stink (which may also be true for all I know).

Our B team only lost by 20 pts to Savannah at Hancock . . . . if that means anything.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:26 pm
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Bradleyville, Missouri
Post Bykowski Rating System
Can I assume all stats are welcome? I wouldn't want to send in stats Byko wouldn't want, especially considering how much of a joke our conference tournament was. The teams weren't bad, but the organization, well, if you want to read more, check The Definition of Funn Quizbowl, volumes 1 and 2.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:27 pm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 1039
Post Bykowski Rating System
For that matter, though, Priory only beat us by 5 pts. at DeSmet (admittedly, with me only getting there at the half), and I'm not worried that they're placed above us. What happened to Savannah at Hancock is interesting, though.

In any case, it is after all a work in progress.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:30 pm
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 422
Post Bykowski Rating System
Uhh, if you're going to enter Two Saints regular season stats, the "Parkway Central C" of the regular season is the "Parkway Central A" of the postseason. While I'd prefer if you just made all of our 1st team stats "Parkway Central C," it would probably make more sense if you just made the regular season "Parkway Central A" team into a new team called "Parkway Central C," which did not make the playoffs. If that makes sense.

Also, since that loss to Marquette didn't actually count, any way we can remove it and forget it ever happened? *hopeful, innocent-looking revisionist smiley*


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:32 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
Interestingly enough, as the rankings exist as of now, that change (PCH A for C) seems already to have been made--PCH A incorporates your top team's results from Two Saints.

Why did you guys do that, anyway? (Use C for A)


Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:53 pm
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Posts: 422
Post Bykowski Rating System
The reasons that some of the playoff rankings are there for our A team is because our "C" team was labelled "A" as soon as it reached the playoffs, I think. I mostly added that comment so that Byko wouldn't get confused when he adds the regular season results. I'm e-mailing him now.

In reality, our plan going in to Two Saints was to name our teams "Team A," "Team 1," and "Team : ) " so as not to make any one team seem inferior to the other (the teams were theoretically balanced, but due to absences the A and B teams didn't return the results we had hoped for). When we actually got there, they wouldn't let us do that, but we were allowed to choose which set of players played for each team. I took the team Jason and I were on and put it in the slot with the easiest first day schedule, because Tom wasn't there that day and we wanted our best team when playing the more difficult regular season games. It turned out that the slot with the easiest 1st day schedule was "Parkway Central C," so that's the one we took.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:04 pm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 1039
Post Bykowski Rating System
Ah, that makes sense...

To be honest, I was hoping to do that too, since a number of my B team players were absent the first day, but we didn't get the chance to do that. And then, B team went up against FZW A & B that day...not fun. :)


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89143/'>Charbroil</a>, Jan 26 2009, 10:31:44 PM.</div>


Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:49 pm
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006
Posts: 4134
Location: Columbia, MO
Post Bykowski Rating System
the last ramsfan wrote:
Can I assume all stats are welcome? I wouldn't want to send in stats Byko wouldn't want, especially considering how much of a joke our conference tournament was. The teams weren't bad, but the organization, well, if you want to read more, check The Definition of Funn Quizbowl, volumes 1 and 2.
While I don't presume to speak for David, my understanding is that as long as you have the win-loss result of each game from your conference (not the rankings or team records, but the result of each game with or without the scores), they are good to be entered in the system.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:58 pm
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007
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Location: Edgewater, MD
Post Bykowski Rating System
ashkenaziCD wrote:
the last ramsfan wrote:
Can I assume all stats are welcome? I wouldn't want to send in stats Byko wouldn't want, especially considering how much of a joke our conference tournament was. The teams weren't bad, but the organization, well, if you want to read more, check The Definition of Funn Quizbowl, volumes 1 and 2.
While I don't presume to speak for David, my understanding is that as long as you have the win-loss result of each game from your conference (not the rankings or team records, but the result of each game with or without the scores), they are good to be entered in the system.
And the point goes to Charlie.

Yes, exactly.

As for the other comments, well, the more data that get entered, the more accurate the ratings may be. Also, regarding Parkway Central, I do reserve the right (which I use occasionally) to re-label teams such that a school's best-performing team is labeled as A, etc., if there is sufficient evidence. That doesn't mean that everytime a school's B team beats its A team that I'll switch the labels, but in very clear cases like PCH A versus PCH C, I'll make the switch. I tend to set the bar pretty high to do something like that and put trust in teams to label themselves accurately. Sometimes, especially early on in the season, it doesn't work out that way. Oh well.

One other point: the only quiz bowl types of things I won't take are ones that are single-subject events, like Science Bowl or Missouri Western's Social Studies tournament.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89093/'>Byko</a>, Jan 27 2009, 11:21:19 AM.</div>


Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:39 am
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Post Bykowski Rating System
Our record is 30 - 10. I am still trying to figure out what is missing. We had a game vs. Lafayette (when Marquette did not show up for Two Saints playoffs).

Let's see:

Two Saints (St. Charles): 6 - 1
Two Saints playoffs: 3 -1 with 1 - 0 (Lafayette game that did not count for playoffs)
Cuba: 2 - 1
Rolla: 7 - 2
Hancock: 2 - 1 in morning, 2 - 1 in afternoon
De Smet: 3 - 0 in morning, 0 - 1 in afternoon
Washington: 2 - 1 in morning, 2 - 1 in afternoon





30 - 10 for FZW A


Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:22 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
It's missing the DeSmet games besides the loss (just like ours). Otherwise, the scores are in, it just hasn't updated yet.


Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:42 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
By the way, Coach Gibbs, did you send in the scores of the games that didn't count?


Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:01 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
For some reason I could not find them. I only knew what our score was against Lafayette. After getting pounded by PCH that night, I poked my head in. Ryan said, "Don't worry, you can come in. This one is going much better."

It ended 420 - 150.


I think the moderators didn't give me the other games. I am not sure where they went.


Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:32 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
I've emailed the results of the sKnow Bowl.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:05 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
Poor Byko, it looks like a major problem he's got on his hands now.


Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:15 pm
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Posts: 79
Post Bykowski Rating System
There are some definite flaws in this system. Truman as 20th in the nation? They're not a bad team, they did win a legitimate tournament (ours), but they're not better than Whitman or Stuyvesant, and I don't think you can make the argument that they're the best team in the state, which is what these ratings would suggest.


Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:02 pm
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Location: Columbia, MO
Post Bykowski Rating System
That's the inherent nature of being a system that can't analyze anything but the objective facts of people winning games over other people, combined with a small sample size.


Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:05 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
I think the more important issue in this case is the lack of score reports for Truman from tournaments other than the sKnow Bowl (which they won) and the small assortment of games from other sources available. If that data was input, Truman's rating would probably drop to its appropriate level.

If Byko's ratings was still up and running, I'd suggest that you (Grant) go and find the results from your tournament and send them in, but seeing as how they're not, that point is more or less moot. In any case, that would probably inflate the rankings in the wrong direction.


Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:18 pm
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Post Bykowski Rating System
Is this still being updated?


Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:37 pm
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Unfortunately, I don't think so....


Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:54 pm
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Location: Ozark, Missouri
Post Bykowski Rating System
FZW Coach wrote:
Is this still being updated?
It is, but Mr. Bykowski's unfortunate technical issues mean that he's currently focusing on reentering lost data, instead of incorporating new data.


Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:57 pm
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Location: Independence
Post Bykowski Rating System
I have Truman's results for all games up through Quads. As I'm the only debater on the scholar team I was awarded the job of recording the results for NFL debate points. We are 32-6 at the moment (losing to Liberty twice, Hallsville, Park Hill South, LSN, and Park Hill). I need to email the results to the guy, something I just never got around to do.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89156/'>DIoanis</a>, Mar 1 2009, 09:43:40 PM.</div>


Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:39 pm
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Location: Independence
Post Bykowski Rating System
I will email results ASAP, sometime this week. I only have who we played and if we beat them or not, which is better then nothing. I think the sKnowbowl results have scores but those are in the system already.


<div class="editby">Edited by <a href='http://s4.zetaboards.com/Academic_Competition/profile/89156/'>DIoanis</a>, Mar 1 2009, 09:50:21 PM.</div>


Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:40 pm
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