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Preseason Polling

Discussion of quizbowl topics not related to specific tournaments
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Charlie Dees
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Preseason Polling

Post by Charlie Dees » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:57 pm

Is anyone interested in running a preseason poll for the top 10 teams in the state, as well as potentially the top 5 in each class (although that part is less likely to happen)? If so, post here, and if there's enough interest I'll be willing to help run it again like I did the last time.

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Post by DeckardCain » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:29 pm

Sure.

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Post by ELADAMO89 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:57 am

class 4
1:nkc/liberty
3:kirksville
4:fhc
5:helias
bobble: hickman

class 3
1:savannah
2:priory
3:hallsville
4:ste. genevieve
5:smithville
bobble: notre dame

class 2
1:richland/fordland
3:plattsburg
4:purdy
5:pleasant hope
bobble: college heights

class 1
1:thomas jefferson
2:glascow
3:lockwood
4:st joseph christian
5:north shelby
bobble: stanberry

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:11 am

That's not the ballot I was going to ask you for if we ran the poll.
EDIT: Also, Notre Dame is going to be awful this year.

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Post by AShoaib » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:15 pm

Adam, I think you forgot #2 in class 4.

I dunno about Helias. I mean, they totally beat us at UMR Fall, but we beat Hickman who had beaten Helias with quite a margin slightly comfortably. I think... I'll dig up the numbers and check.

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Post by FishyFreshman » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:49 pm

I think he didn't put a number 2 because he has 2 teams competing for number 1.

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Post by ELADAMO89 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:00 pm

thats what i ment number 2 for on both class 4 and class 2
and i wasnt sure who would go well under number 5
and they're both good teams in the top 10

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Post by KentB » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:05 pm

class 4
1:FHC
2: Kirksville
3: NKC
4: Liberty
5: Eureka
Hickman could be somewhere in there. Cape Central will probably be at state as well. The order given above does not really need heavy scrutiny. I put FHC at #1 after seeing Charles play but I have not seen Brandon/Grant play without Charlie, nor have I seen Kirksville play without Laura.

Class 3
not notre dame

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:35 pm

I mean, I'm not going to be using any of these ballots since all I really plan on counting is top 10 overall.

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Post by DeckardCain » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:15 pm

ashkenaziCD wrote: I mean, I'm not going to be using any of these ballots since all I really plan on counting is top 10 overall.
Eh, since Class 4 is going to be so loaded this year that someone could realistically submit a ballot with no other class represented and no one would think anything of it, don't you think it would be fair to give some of the smaller schools some recognition?

Full predictions coming soon.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:36 pm

The problem being that there are so few people able to actually compile an objective ballot about these things that all i feel content asking is an overall top 10. I tried doing all classes last time and it turned out to be mostly a waste of time since i only got 2 usable full class ballots.

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Post by FishyFreshman » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm confident NKC will still be one of the top 2 teams in class 4. Brandon and Grant alone could've probably won state last year. (assuming they got past us at districts










:) )

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Post by carpenoctem63141 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:19 pm

I'd send a ballot, but I really have no knowledge of the strength of teams in Class 1 or 2, so I feel I'd be leaving off teams.

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Post by AShoaib » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:21 pm

1:nkc/liberty
3:kirksville
4:fhc
5:helias
bobble: hickman
class 4
1: FHC
2: Kirksville
3: NKC
4: Liberty
5: Eureka
Hmmm.... yeah, I agree with this ballot more than Adam's... Yeah, I totally didn't catch the "NKC/Liberty" thing. My bad.

FHC is really good. Almost on par with, dare I say it, Savannah? It's been a while since playing them (10 months) so I can be seeing things through a distorted view of the past. I've not seen NKC sans Charles, so I'll have to withhold my ballot for the time being... but Kent's ballot seems to be spot on. Hickman and Helias are good, but there are better teams in class 4. I'd also like to mention Ladue.

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Post by FishyFreshman » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:43 pm

You make it sound like Savannah is the best. We beat them with Terin at NAQT. They won't have Terin this year, and although Zach is pretty good, I wouldn't put them above my team or NKC.

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Post by redliberte » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:35 pm

There is sort of this perennially inflated idea of Savannah, mostly because their reputation of years and years of quizbowl domination preceeds them (and is generally deserved). But Spencer is right: they're not returning a whole lot of people this year, and while they'll probably still be a power in NWMO, I wouldn't put them above the five teams already mentioned.

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Post by Ravi Fernando » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:36 pm

There should be some shake-ups in all classes this year, with such players as Charlie Dees, Terin Budine, David Westrich, Nate Schuster, Alex Dzurick, and Laura Kling graduating; and perhaps even more good players (Charles Hang, Marc Prablek, Abdullah Shoaib, Kevin Lang, Taylor Smith, Julia Price, Mark Schneider, etc.) entering their senior year. Although I don't foresee any major class 4 powers falling, the chase for the state title appears to be wide open. I'm predicting Eureka, FHC, Hickman, Kirksville, Ladue, Liberty, and NKC to be the top few teams in class 4 this year, perhaps along with one or two other teams that I omitted. Note that I listed them in alphabetical order. I'd rank them 1-7 if I only had a pair of dice on me.

EDIT: FZW should also be up there.

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Post by DeckardCain » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:40 pm

Savannah has something to prove this year, and while I certainly expect them to be among the top Class 3 teams in the state, I don't think you can call them the best team in the state at this point.

Anyway, some predictions, which are subject to change as I don't know a whole lot about returning players for next year (I wish MACA would have posted grade levels for the All-District teams like they did in past years):

Class 1:
Thomas Jefferson over someone. I really have no idea about this class.

Class 2:
Richland over Plattsburg, unless Fordland gets placed in a different district this year. I still see Richland and Fordland being the two best teams in a very weak Class 2 even though they lost a lot to graduation.

Class 3:
Hallsville over Savannah, especially if Hallsville gets out to more tournaments this year.

Class 4:
Francis Howell Central over North Kansas City, as it would be foolish of me to pick against Charles seeing as his team almost beat mine at the novice tournament Saturday. This is by far the most interesting class this year, as I think it's entirely possible that the entire Top 10 could come from Class 4 when all is said and done, and a lot of those teams should be fairly evenly matched.

Overall Top 10:

1) Francis Howell Central
2) North Kansas City
3) Eureka
4) Liberty
5) Fort Zumwalt West
6) Kirksville
7) Hickman
8) Ladue
9) Truman
10) Hallsville

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Post by AShoaib » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:08 pm

Oooh... yeah, I guess I did make Savannah sound like the second coming of Jesus. My bad. The original statement still stands though, FHC is still a pretty good team.

I'd honestly place Liberty above us...

The names Matt posted seem reasonable, although I'd rearrange them and make some changes.

1) Francis Howell Central
2) North Kansas City (sans Charles, i dunno)
3) Liberty
4) Kirksville
5) Ladue
6) Eureka
7) Ft. Zumwault West
8) Hickman
9) Westminster (they've got a reputation for being good... I dunno if they can hold on to it)/SLUH/some other private school
10) Pilot Grove (woot)

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Post by Charbroil » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Well...the high opinion everyone seems to have developed for me and my team is very flattering, but I think it's rather exaggerated. NKC sans Charles Dees does seem somewhat weakened, but those who are more "in the know"--as in having encountered them before--seem to give them extremely high marks, so I would probably put them above us. Ladue, I've heard, is very good, too, as is Richland (admittedly not Class 4), who beat us last year at Helias. Kent, Matt, I'm flattered about your opinion of me, but it's really quite exaggerated. I only came close to beating you, Matt, in a 10 question game, where there were few enough questions that simple luck could have given me enough questions to beat you with; recall that you pummeled me 360~45 the first game.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:43 pm

Brandon and Grant are both good enough players that they could both score over 20 ppg on NAQT sets (and something like 15 and 19 at HSNCT) while playing on my team and get great buzzes in multiple subjects, sometimes outscoring me or playing major roles in our wins over good teams like Walter Johnson. Victor can get some great buzzes and has a nice skill to get some odd niche buzzes and not be phased by his teammate's performances, and Tyler knows pop culture/sports and is a very good niche player for psychology. At the 2 tournaments last year where I didn't play, NKC still made the top 2, and at districts when I wasn't playing in the prelims they went undefeated with very good scores and produced 2 high scorers on the all-district team. NKC will be very good this year.

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Post by AShoaib » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:51 pm

Nice then. We have NO SPORTS whatsoever, with Alex gone.... he knew little, but he knew more than I did.

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Post by FZW Coach » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:18 pm

Realizing that I haven't seen any team this year and understanding this is just a preseason poll based on very little "on the field" information, I will offer a top 10 list as well just to have another list to look at.

No one has really stated this, but I assume we are creating lists based on MSHSAA format. The type of questions will also have an impact on the results, but I don't think I will get into that now (see FZW vs. Ladue at state both games).


Top 10 overall:

1) Ladue

I just realized I can't think of a clear #1. So, feel free to insert any of the top 5 teams into this slot.

We scrimmaged them last year (although we only had one varsity starter in attendance). Marc and Jack are quite skilled. But, we did dominate their JV team so I am not sure if they will be getting any extra help (unless it comes from outside the program, which is always possible).

2) FHC

For the first time in 7 years of GAC tournaments, we did not have an answer for FHC. We did lose pretty badly in 2004 to Washington, but we are much better than we were then and could not figure out how to defeat their two players Charles and George. They have some other ok players, but those two balance each other quite nicely. After 7 tournaments, FZW has 3 titles, FHC has 3 titles (including the first in 2003 with just 4 teams in attendance and 2006 in which they defeated us on the final question), and Washington has 1 title.

3) NKC

I have never seen them play without Charles, but I greatly respect their coach and have very little doubt they will be solid this year. Brandon most impressed me at state this past year.

4) Kirksville

They always seem strong. Having someone as good as Ravi at math can really carry your team especially in games with bad questions. I am guessing Mark, Geoff, and others will provide enough support to lead them once again to a state trophy.

5) Eureka

Returning two players from the All State team is a great place to start. I know that after we first made it to state, the team came back fully ready to go. I would guess the same will be true of Abdullah and Kevin this year. They will be tested in Two Saints which will provide an early season test for how good they may be.

6) FZW

Having your varsity captain return is a good start. Finishing strong at JV State is another good attribute. If the two juniors develop as I hope along with captain Julia, this team may do ok. We have a large enough program that I suspect we will end up having quality talent starting by time we get to district play.

7) Liberty

We didn't see their varsity team play last year. They are always pretty strong, so I am guessing they should be pretty strong again this year.

8) Richland

They always have a quality program. I think Brian will continue to lead a strong team which will no doubt be crowned Class 2 State champions once again.

9) Hallsville

Having your captain return is a good start. Their coach was pumped at state, so I suspect they will continue to rapidly improve.

10) Hickman

They didn't impress me at state, but then again they made it to state and we did not. I honestly do not know anything about their players, but I think they are returning some of their more important players based on what the coach told me.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:27 pm

Brian Mahan graduated from Richland. Liberty is undoubtedly better than FZW. And I almost never take MSHSAA format into account when making these polls as opposed to actual skill at good quizbowl.

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Post by MST Mahan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:12 am

I agree with Charles, I graduated. I am playing at MST now. Richland should be up to par this year, led by Laura Sprague(Senior) and Cale Karr(Junior).

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Post by Charbroil » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:51 am

With the first test of the abilities of many of the teams previously mentioned coming up at the end of the month in the Two Saints tournament, I suppose I'll throw a list (Obviously biased towards Class 4, but not entirely comprised of such) into the mix as well:

Top 10:

1/ North Kansas City

Despite the flattering descriptions of us as the top team in Missouri, I think that title probably still falls to NKC, which still fields the aforementioned Brandon and Grant. According to one of my players who attended MSA last year with Grant, he's an extremely potent player, who I imagine has greatly improved over the past year, while the other players on NKC's team are, as previously mentioned, very impressive.

2/ Liberty?

I haven't seen Liberty play either, but if they're a perennial challenge to NKC as well as a competent participant in national tournaments such as NAQT, I imagine that they're quite capable. We might get a chance to see for ourselves at the NAQT qualifier...

3/ Ladue

Given that Ladue placed 3rd at State and we didn't place at all, I believe we can safely consider them a highly capable team. I think our team lost to Marc's at the MSA quiz bowl tournament, so I would be rather foolish to underestimate them. Also, it's noteworthy to note that they placed 3rd at the very tough WUHSAC tournament.

4/ Francis Howell Central

Our major advantage is that the vast majority of our team's top players are going to be returning this year. Thus, our performance should not change significantly from last year to this one, whereas many of our toughest competitors (Eureka, FZW, Kirksville) have lost critical players whom they will have trouble replacing.

5/ Eureka

Fairly similarly to our team, Eureka will be missing only one of last year's starters this year, and given that team's high performance at State last year as well as talented performances at Two Saints and WUHSAC (among others), they will be a major threat this year.

6/ Parkway Central/Clayton/Lafayette (No particular Order)

These three teams, all participants in Two Saints that placed well last year, have been perennial bugbears for everyone in that tournament and barring any major changes in that trend, will probably remain such. All of these teams were 2-1 against one another and Eureka, indicating that they're fairly equal in skill. I only rank them a touch lower because of the fact that Eureka ended up overtaking all of them in the tournament, and because we defeated Lafayette with a fairly significantly greater margin than we did Eureka in finals. It's noteworthy that both PCH and Lafayette did very well at WUHSAC.

7/ Richland

I've only had the opportunity to face Richland once, at the Helias tournament last year, but they proved to be extremely tough foes. They will be losing their captain, who scored 2nd only to me at the tournament, but I imagine that they will remain very tough. If I had a frame of reference to place them against some of the previously mentioned teams, Richland might rise in my rankings.

8/ Kirksville

Kirksville's major problem this year is similar to that of a number of our other major opponents on this list--they will be losing one of their top scorers from last year, with no replacement of equivalent caliber. Ravi's performance at State was extremely impressive, but that fact has to be tempered by both his and Mark's performances at the Novice Open in August, and the fact that the two of them will be a significant (55-70%?) portion of their scoring. Nevertheless, Kirksville may very well make it to State again this year, depending on how Districts/Sectionals will be organized, given the fact that their players are very capable.

9/ Fort Zumwalt West

Placing our perennial rivals and highly talented opponents at Fort Zumwalt West at 9th seems to be a significant disservice, but is in no way intended as such. Their captain, Julia, will be a significant threat as always, and the comeback abilities of their team--as exemplified by their 100 point comeback at Helias last year--make it so that any team which underestimates them does so at its own risk. On the other hand, FZW will be losing the most starters (that I am aware of) of any of the teams
on this list, and while the Juniors who will be replacing them are highly capable, as far as I have seen, they do not appear to be equal to the ones they are replacing. I make that assessment only because I never saw them played in tournaments during the most critical matches in lieu of the seniors who graduated last year. The two seniors playing this year on their starting lineup, Julia & Kai He, are talented, though...we will have to see.

10/ Westminster? Hallsville? Hickman? Savannah? Some other school I haven't even thought of?

There are a lot of tough teams in Missouri that I haven't faced recently (or at all) which may perhaps deserve a higher ranking, but having not seen them in action, nor having enough statistics to really evaluate them, here is my acknowledgment of them.

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Post by NKCtrashman » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:35 pm

Now that Questions Galore is the provider for state, my rankings:

1. Winnetonka or Oak Park possibly even Staley if they have quizbowl
2. Salem (why not?)
3. Lees Summit (West, North, or regular, doesnt particularly matter)
4. flip a coin between two schools you have never heard of
5. any team that knows words that you can find in Rock stars names
6. any Catholic school
7. a school from Missouri
8. a football team
9. a mediocre team
10. any three people that can speak english
11. a great team
12. Charles Dees (due to MSHSAA disqualification for illegally obtaining knowledge)

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Post by Ford08 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:02 pm

Just a toss up for class two.

1) Fordland, yes I am going to say Fordland this year I have a wonderful feeling that they are going to be unstopable.
2)Richland
3)college heights
4)tarkio ?

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Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:25 pm

NKCtrashman wrote: Now that Questions Galore is the provider for state, my rankings:

1. Winnetonka or Oak Park possibly even Staley if they have quizbowl
2. Salem (why not?)
3. Lees Summit (West, North, or regular, doesnt particularly matter)
4. flip a coin between two schools you have never heard of
5. any team that knows words that you can find in Rock stars names
6. any Catholic school
7. a school from Missouri
8. a football team
9. a mediocre team
10. any three people that can speak english
11. a great team
12. Charles Dees (due to MSHSAA disqualification for illegally obtaining knowledge)
How did you come forward in time, Nostradamus?

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Post by FordATeam/CC » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:38 pm

Ford08 wrote: Just a toss up for class two.

1) Fordland, yes I am going to say Fordland this year I have a wonderful feeling that they are going to be unstopable.
2)Richland
3)college heights
4)tarkio ?
Not so fast Chad. While we've got several team members excited about the coming season, Adam is the only returner with real varsity experience. I know we will be good by season's end, but we will likely take a few early lumps due in part to inexperience and youth. Right now I am just focusing on making sure we can defend conference (which Norwood should give us a good run on). We will improve, because we are going to get out and compete, but April and May are a long way off and it is way too soon to make statements like that.

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Post by Ford08 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:31 pm

I don't know adam will be quite a wrecking ball... and rachel and the others will be a huge help. Hmm... I just wish I could play one more year...Stupid stupid Mona lisa, Thomas Edison.....

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Post by Fresh Prince of Bradleyville » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:22 pm

Although I don't really know about Class 4 or 3, and very little about class 2, save for Richland, Fordland, and Tarkio, I will share my knowledge about class 1.

Thomas Jefferson IDS- My school's archrival. I know for a fact that they are returning their best player (Virginia Geddie) and she pretty much single-handedly helped TJ win the class 1 title. Besides her, I know of no other really strong player on that team. They can win state again, but with Questions Galore and these new rules, I don't know if she can drive them through this chaos.

North Shelby- Lost their entire starting group. Doubt they'll do very much if anything at all.

Stanberry- They're bringing back Bill Hodge, who is probably one of the better seniors in class 1. That being said, with just him its going to be difficult.

Lutheran (KC)- They lost Danielle, but bring back Jared, their only all-state player. No matter who these guys have they always seem to do well. They will probably be back in Columbia this year.

Pilot Grove- Lost Nate, their only really good player. Probably will crash out of existence.

Lockwood- Although I don't know their roster, I do know that they always pose a challenge to TJ. Don't be surprised if these guys find a way to get by TJ and into state competition.

Norwood- This is my dark horse team. These guys are very balanced and bring back their entire team. Can only get better as the year progresses and could be in Columbia before its all said and done. (And for those who use the final score from districts last year, believe me they are a lot better than that.)

St. Joe Christian- Lost their two best players, doubt they do much.

St. Elizabeth-Lost Phillip Beck, their captain and star. Don't know if they have the depth to be a contender.

Bradleyville- I'll throw a little love for my team. When we lost Jon, I thought we were swamped, but by some miracle we got back to state. Now that we've lost Matt, we may be in trouble. I have been working with the team's coach and helping to improve our subs from last year and our new talent. I myself worked very hard over the summer to improve my general literature, as well as my brother's. I also started taking classes in the two things we have always been lacking in- Advanced Math and Chemistry. Speaking for my team, I know we can win our two conferences, and districts easily. We're planning to have a tournament at Bradleyville to give us some more experience, and may invite some of the strong teams in the state (Fordland and Richland). The only snag I see is if we have to face Norwood or TJ in a sectional. Other than that, I see nothing that can stop us from returning to state. Winning state? Now that will be a problem.

After that long insight into class 1, here are my rankings (just for class 1)

1. Thomas Jefferson
2. KC Lutheran
3. Lockwood
4. Bradleyville
5. Norwood

After that it's anyone's guess...

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Post by ELADAMO89 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:08 pm

i've heard a little about bradleyville
but not much
i have wanted to play you guys for a while just to see how good you were
i would like to go to a tourney in bradleyville if you got it going
if it doesn't interfere with our current schedule

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Post by Charbroil » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:14 pm

Yeah...it would definitely be interesting to see some of these schools in competition...only, I've never done so. What kind of tournaments do you guys play at, anyway?

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Post by DeckardCain » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:16 pm

Yeah, it would certainly be cool to see Bradleyville at more tournaments this year... have you considered at all the possibility of adding a few invitationals to your schedule? There are several good tournaments within easy travel range.

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Post by Fresh Prince of Bradleyville » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:20 pm

Sorry I haven't been on in a few days. To answer your questions, here's what I can tell you.

We are currently trying to add some more tournaments to our schedule. I was discussing going to Norwood's tournament with our coach, but we took too much time, and we couldn't get in. :( We are thinking about going to Fordland's (if they still have one) and I would personally love to see what we could do. Also heard one of the team's may have dropped out of Norwood's touranment, so we could sneak in. Please realize that although our school is behind our team 100%, our school is hard-pressed to find any available travel funds.

As far as us having a tournament, what we are currently planning to do is have our tournament in January sometime. We will probably invite our conference schools first, of which I would think only three or four would show up. I am going to recommend to my coach that we invite in some competition (in our conference, White River, we are the only team to ever win conference. :D) However, the tournament may be impossible now...

You see, our coach was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, which prevented us from setting up a tournament last year. She went for a check-up in September, which showed another possible spot. She goes back on October 30th, and if everything turns out okay, Bradleyville is likely to have a tournament.

Edit: Charbroil, we normally have only gone to three tournaments, the White River conference tournament, Mark Twain conference tournament, MSHSAA districts, and state, if we qualify. (not much of a schedule, eh?)

Fresh Prince of Bradleyville
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Post by Fresh Prince of Bradleyville » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:48 pm

For all of those who are wondering:

Our coach's tests came back, and she was given a clean bill of health. :D Now there is a possibility of Bradleyville having a tournament. Remember I say POSSIBILITY, not there will be, probably, and I also retract likely. It is currently a POSSIBILITY. I know this post is a little old, and since I last posted the MOQBA has been established. To any of the MOQBA officers: I know myself, our coaches, and our team would be honored to be known as one of the very first MOQBA certified tournaments.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:34 pm

Well, if you can prove your tournament will be of a quality met by the website's guidelines, then I'm sure MOQBA would have no problem giving that recognition out.

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Jeffrey Hill
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Post by Jeffrey Hill » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:49 pm

If you do decide to host a tournament, we will be more than happy to provide guidance on meeting MOQBA standards. If you ever have any questions in the process don't hesitate to e-mail us or post them on this board.

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socalcaptain
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Post by socalcaptain » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:45 pm

I'll ditto my fellow MOQBA members. We are more than willing to work with you on this!

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