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Summer Novice Open interest

Discussion of quizbowl topics not related to specific tournaments
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Charlie Dees
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Summer Novice Open interest

Post by Charlie Dees »

I've read this announcement and thought it was a pretty cool idea. Basically it's an open tournament for high schoolers and young college players to help build up packet writing abilities and introduce them to low-level collegiate questions and play. I'm posting here to see if anybody would be interested in playing a local mirror of this. It would be a good opportunity for high schoolers who want to play in college get some experience with it in a pretty consequence free way, and it could help people learn some new stuff too. It would be an open tournament (well, I dunno, maybe it should have an upper age limit), so I'm pretty sure that it is exempt from MSHSAA eligibility rules, and you can make your own teams with people from other schools and stuff like that. If you think this is a good idea, post here or email me (charlie16 at gmail.com), and if enough people are interested I can try to set up somewhere for this to happen.
-Charlie

EDIT: here's the official announcement from Irvine

KentB
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Post by KentB »

I will be in Kirksville this summer if you would like to host it here ... although this isn't very centrally located.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Yeah, and I was thinking if push comes to shove I could just get a chunk of hotel rooms for a day to host it in.

STPickrell
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Post by STPickrell »

I'm guessing difficulty would be my 'regular season' questions on the tossups, and definitely a couple lines longer.

Bonuses will typically have an easy part, a medium part, and a hard part to them.

I'm assuming most of us know this already but there's probably a few lurkers/infrequent posters that might want to know this.

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DeckardCain
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Post by DeckardCain »

I'll be in Rolla this summer, though I don't know if I would be able to get rooms.

Sounds like a pretty good idea, though. I can probably staff if needed.

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socalcaptain
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Post by socalcaptain »

Sounds like a great idea!

Make sure you try to avoid major and/or local things like Summer Welcome, national FBLA/FFA/etc. when you consider dates.

I would definitely participate if this got established (and the date worked!).

johnboy81918
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Post by johnboy81918 »

If this had a mirror here, would you want participating individuals/teams to submit a packet each, or (what I was presuming) would there be enough questions already that it wouldn't require any extra packet sub? I think either would be good, since if everyone participating in this submitted a packet, you could maybe do extra rounds on the submitted packets, plus people could use this opportunity to (constructively) criticize each other's questions. Just my two cents, along with another cent: I would potentially be interested in playing/writing a packet, date and eligibility info not withstanding.

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redliberte
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Summer Novice Open interest

Post by redliberte »

i'd also be interested in playing/packet writing

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I mean, it just depends on what Dwight says, but I personally think having the option to submit a packet for discount is optimal so as to encourage people to try their hand at writing. In my experience, often the editors require a few packets from their mirror site in compensation for letting them mirror their set for free.

johnboy81918
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Post by johnboy81918 »

Some questions then:

Deadlines?
Price?
Eligibility?
Obviously location and time have yet to be worked out, but those qualify as questions too.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Yeah, I mean, none of that can be answered until Dwight announces more about the tournament and we get in touch with him, other then I'd imagine the date will be similar to what he announced (towards the end of June).

STPickrell
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Post by STPickrell »

I wouldn't mind helping a Missouri mirror with maybe 5/5 or so in my better areas (literature, trash, history, religion/mythology.) I can do that over one slow day or 2-3 average days here @ work.

I'm not up on the latest of what stock clues are though.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

So, they have made a full announcement for the Irvine site (check out the link in my top post) and here is the distribution for packets:
DISTRIBUTION
A total of 24/24, to be divided among the following categories:

4/4 Literature
1/1 American, 1/1 British, 1/1 Continental European, and 1/1 World is preferred. You are allowed to deviate from this subdistribution by a maximum of 1 question (e.g. you can have 3 British questions and only 1 World question, but not 0 Continental European questions). Please vary your tossup answer selection and bonus topics among works of prose, poetry, and drama, and their authors.

4/4 History
1/1 American, 1/1 European, 1/1 World/Ancient, 1/1 Your Choice. Please vary time periods and countries.

4/4 Science
1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, 1/1 Minor Science. Minor science includes Astronomy, Earth Science, non-computational Mathematics, Computer Science, and Engineering. Please do not write on uninteresting things like VSEPR theory, oxidation states, keywords in computer languages, etc. Element questions are fine so long as they aren't a rehash of the physical and/or chemical properties of the element.

3/3 Fine Arts
Three of your six questions should be on the visual arts (painting, sculpture, architecture, mixed-media, photography, film) and three on auditory arts (classical music, music theory, opera, jazz). Please include at least one question each on painting and non-opera classical music.

2/2 Religion, Mythology, and Philosophy
At least one question each on mythology and philosophy. The remaining two questions can be additional mythology or philosophy, religion, or something like Hinduism/Indian myth or Shinto/Japanese myth that doesn't easily fit into one category.

1/1 Social Science
Choose two different disciplines from psychology, economics, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, or linguistics. Questions on Supreme Court cases do not belong here unless they specifically focus on the legal reasoning or implications of the case.

1/1 Geography
Your questions should come from two different continents and should not be about the same political or natural entity. Please make your questions on things that are actually relevant; this means don't write on stuff like the Caprivi Strip that has no value in either natural or human geography.

1/1 Current Events
One question should be about a recent (<1 year) political event. The second question can be on a social/economic/cultural/scientific current event, or a second political event from a different country.

2/2 Popular Culture
At least 1 question, but no more than 2, on each of Sports and Visual Pop Culture (movies, TV, video games, Internet phenomena). Music, food/drink, card/board games, and other staples of a standard pop culture distribution are also acceptable; meta questions are not.

2/2 Academic Your Choice
One question should either be multidisciplinary or on something like business or literary criticism that doesn't easily pigeonhole itself into one of these categories. The remaining three questions should come from two or more categories; additional Big Three and/or RMP is encouraged.
We have a TD and are trying to find a place to host this tournament, but it looks like it has a chance of running here, so if you want to go start rounding up your team and writing your packets. As things settle the TD will probably get on more and start posting packet discount information and the like.

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socalcaptain
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Post by socalcaptain »

So, I'm assuming we'd play using the same eligibility rules, then?

Like, if I wanted to contact some old HS quiz bowl buddies of mine, we could play?

(By the way, what's MSHSAA's stance on players still in high school? I'd love to ask a certain player *Taylor* from a certain school *Hallsville* around here to play with me if they'd be eligible for next year's MSHSAA competition.)

And, another clarification - only one of us has to write the packet? And, the writer has to sit out on his own set, but not necessarily his whole team?

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DeckardCain
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Post by DeckardCain »

As the TD Charlie mentions in his previous post is me, I'll try to answer that:

It is my understanding that MSHSAA rules do not come into play as long as no one is representing a school - in other words, you can play with anyone you want, as long as you don't play under the name "South Callaway High School." I'm attempting to get clarification on this as I type, but I'm pretty sure this is right.

As far as packets are concerned: generally the entire team sits out during the round that team's packet is read, and each team is responsible for submitting exactly one packet. One person could write the whole thing, but it's pretty time-consuming to do so (for reference, it took me about an hour and a half an evening over the course of five days to complete each of the two college-level packets I've written solo).

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socalcaptain
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Post by socalcaptain »

Great! Quick answers. That's what I like.

I'll try to start recruiting...it'd be helpful to know a date but I can still start asking!

AShoaib
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Post by AShoaib »

What would be cool is getting the top... 6 or so people from our district and entering them as a sort of"dream team". I'd watch that.

KentB
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Post by KentB »

Chuq, if you need anyone to edit Bio, Chem, Visual Arts, or anything relating to Spain or Latin America, let me know.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I mean, I'm not involved in writing any more than whatever packet I submit. That's all Dwight.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

OK guys, it looks like we have a shot of procuring some space for this tournament, so I'd say we can work under the assumption right now that this tournament is going to happen in some form or another in early July. Matt can elaborate more on this once a full announcement comes out and it is worked out with Dwight Wynne, the central editor, but there will be discounts for submitting a packet's worth of questions using the distribution I posted above, so if you want to pay less money it's probably best to begin writing some questions. Some writing basics - the tossups need to be between 5 to 6 lines long and consist of concrete clues arranged as best you know in order from least well known to most well known. The bonuses are going to be different than the MSHSAA format - they need to consist of 3 parts worth 10 points each, NOT 20 points total divided into 4 parts. Try your best to pick answers that allow for an easy 10 points, a medium difficulty 20 points, and a hard 30 points. Of course, don't show the questions to anybody not on your team until the tournament is over unless you're certain that they aren't going to be playing.
An excellent guide to writing better questions can be found here, and an excellent 10 tips on what to not write can be found here. This tournament aims to be at about the writing level of the following tournaments: Illinois Novice 2007, Illinois Novice 2008, and the following ACF Fall tournaments:2001, 2002, 2003,2004,2005,and 2007.
Those are fantastic sets to use to prepare for this and to consult for difficulty markers and style of writing. The way the packet should be formatted can be found here.
Happy writing, and more about this tournament should be forthcoming. Also, email Matt if you are interested in playing and either have a team or are a free agent looking for a team. Anyway, this will probably be my last post about guidelines or anything, since I hope to play in the tournament as well and not be a director.

KentB
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Post by KentB »

.... I'm interested in playing solo but I'm not even sure if that is even kosher. I'm still an undergrad and still plan to play at ACF Fall and maybe EFT, which are comparable difficulty, but it's still probably iffy given the target audience.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I have heard rumors about the solo attendances of Eric Mukherjee and Trygve Meade, so unless Matt decides that's not OK I can't imagine you would be denied the chance to play.

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DeckardCain
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Post by DeckardCain »

I would imagine that that would be fine, as I think it's a benefit to all to see as large a field as possible.

I'll hopefully get an announcement up soon, but go ahead and email me (mwcbp3 at mst dot edu) if you're planning on playing, so I can get an idea of how many teams we'll have. Some notes on the tournament I'll go ahead and announce now: since we will almost certainly not have enough moderators, players will probably be expected to read on their bye rounds; in light of this fact, the entry fee will be lower than at the Irvine tournament.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Just in, Irvine will be accepting half-packets as well, so if your team was hesitant to write a whole game now you can submit half of one with this distribution -
Half packets should include:
2/2 Literature
2/2 History
2/2 Science
1/1 Arts
1/1 Religion/Mythology/Philosopy
1/1 Pop Culture
3/3 Academic and Current Events (if you submit the second half of your packet, make sure this is the 3/3 you didn't write on earlier. 2/2 geography is unacceptable unless 1/1 of it is in your "Misc. Academic" section)
That's definitely a lot less work.

Charbroil
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Post by Charbroil »

So, is there any more recent information in regards to this? I received an email a week or two ago about how this was definitely going to happen, but I haven't received any more specific information yet...

KentB
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Post by KentB »

Saturday, August 16 at Truman State

If you would like to come, hopefully people can carpool from wherever they are to make that less of an issue. For more information, see this thread.

I'd ask everyone reading this to please consider coming to this event. The questions for the main event will be more difficult but we will play the novice tournament for sure.

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DeckardCain
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Post by DeckardCain »

Just a heads-up for those of you that don't read the college board: the VCU Open and the novice tournament are still happening at Truman State on August 16. The thread discussing all this is here. (edit: also here)

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