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NAQT State Championship

Discussion of quizbowl topics not related to specific tournaments
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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I really think we should take the lead from other states and set up an NAQT state championship that is independent of MSHSAA. Many states like Virginia, Illinois, and Pennsylvania have dual state championships and I think we should too.
Here's my fantasy: 48 teams meet in a central location such as Columbia. Ideally have them be teams that have placed in the top three at any tournament throughout the season. Have four swiss paired preliminary rounds, and then advance the top 24 to double elimination rounds. Also, there will be no school size divisions. Everyone will all be in one big pool. I would personally like timed matches with powers and negs.

Something to chew on.

FordATeam/CC
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Post by FordATeam/CC »

Do you really think that throwing every class together is a good idea? I can understand where someone from class 3 or 4 wouldn't have a problem, but us smaller schools would be at a tremendous disadvantage. We only have about 200 in our whole high school. An average state qualifier in class 4 has about 7 to 8 times as many students to choose from, let alone so many more classes that they can offer in a schedule. I know that there are some small schools that have been able to compete fairly well at times against larger schools, but I would venture to say that there would only be ten schools at the most in classes 1 and 2 combined that would be in your top 48 teams. Personally, I think we have had some teams in the past (and hopefully again this year) that would make that field, but, I still feel that there are good reasons for breaking state competition into classes.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

But then wouldn't it truly crown the single best team in the state?

My philosophy is that school size doesn't matter very much. What really matters is the four people playing at one given moment. NKC is an example: we theoretically have 1800 kids to draw from. However, wehn you actually see those kids you realize that probably 1700 of them would never cut it, and then another 90 of them couldn't care less about scholar bowl. Then that only leaves you with our scholar bowl team. That's why I don't think classes should matter.

Also, this is the NAQT state championship hosting information page. A fascinating tidbit to direct your attention to is that NAQT provides state championship questions free of charge. So the fee complaint is null.

jcarkeys
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Post by jcarkeys »

That sounds like a good idea.

How about you organize workers for 24 games/round, how about you pay the fees to get a building large enough to host the event, and how about you choose which 48 teams should play?

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Post by chad »

How about we keep the same format with teams in the individual classes and find the state champion for them. Then if you really want to find the best team in the state just add another day and the champion teams from every class play in a roundrobin turney to find who is the best. It would not be that much more hard to organize and then would could also have an overall winner. Then there would be no doubt who is the best.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Right now MSHSAA bans that. Also, NAQT is perfectly legit. Look on their website and see how many state championships they provide. Tons. And there are others like Georgia that are modified but unlisted.

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Post by chad »

Would it be possible to do it "unofficially?"

Terrorizer
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Post by Terrorizer »

Having an NAQT format state championship would be great, but honestly would MSHAA allow this to happen? Of course not, they would go on a Napoleonic Power Monger trip and block all the schools from Quiz Bowl. Then, they would find even worse questions for state(Yes, it is possible) when it did return and punish the poor rebel schools for daring to challenge the all mighty MSHAA. Bow down before the pompous majesty of them.
Now that my rant is over. Cancelling classes from state play would be a bad idea. Taking Chuq's example of only 10/1800 playing quiz bowl in NKC, little schools have an even harder time filling seats. For a school of a hundred to even be able to find six players is pretty impressive. To top that off little schools have less money to spend on quiz bowl, so the team gets to play less then the big schools.

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Post by chad »

I do not know we had one bonus question catagory DISTANCE ON A NUMBER LINE it was pretty funny. But seriously it would be hard for the little schools to play the big ones. It would be fun coming from a smaller school to go against the big boys. Just for fun I am all for it b/c the way I see the more comp the better.

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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

FordATeam/CC wrote: Do you really think that throwing every class together is a good idea?  I can understand where someone from class 3 or 4 wouldn't have a problem, but us smaller schools would be at a tremendous disadvantage.  We only have about 200 in our whole high school.  An average state qualifier in class 4 has about 7 to 8 times as many students to choose from, let alone so many more classes that they can offer in a schedule.  I know that there are some small schools that have been able to compete fairly well at times against larger schools, but I would venture to say that there would only be ten schools at the most in classes 1 and 2 combined that would be in your top 48 teams.  Personally, I think we have had some teams in the past (and hopefully again this year) that would make that field, but, I still feel that there are good reasons for breaking state competition into classes.
Concur with Fordland. One single champion will screw over small schools. Name me a time when TJI or Richland beat the living pine tar our of Savannah or Northtown.

Divergent class sizes are significant here in the Midwest, where we still operate high schools with 30 students enrolled (Breckenridge), and our largest public high school has 100 times as many students (Columbia Hickman). It's a similar story in Iowa, Kansas and perhaps Nebraska. Class sizes must be retained.[size=-7](Pardon the passive voice, but I've no clue whose job it is in this instance to retain them!)[/size]

Has NAQT considered establishing small-class and large-class state champs, if they're not currently in place?

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Post by chad »

(L-Town Expatriate) Has NAQT considered establishing small-class and large-class state champs, if they're not currently in place?
The way it seems it does not matter if they do or don't, mhsaa wont allow us anything. They probabley do but who would want to risk their ability to compete at the district and state level. We will probabley just have to dream about what we could do until some changes are made.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

jcarkeys wrote: That sounds like a good idea.

How about you organize workers for 24 games/round, how about you pay the fees to get a building large enough to host the event, and how about you choose which 48 teams should play?
I will address the actual content of this post first, and then Clark's "witticism."

I actually have a sum of money (and i'm still saving up) that I would be willing to give to whoever would set this up. I should think open application of teams should be fine, although it's preferable to have teams with some success throughout the year. Of course I wouldn't necessarily get the workers, but if it's needed I could find people.

Now, to the sarcasm.

Clark, your words cut right into my heart. I'm devastated. Now I'm so insecure with myself that I think I'll quit scholar bowl and go jump off a bridge.

Make it a little more creative next time.

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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

ashkenaziCD wrote: My philosophy is that school size doesn't matter very much. What really matters is the four people playing at one given moment. NKC is an example: we theoretically have 1800 kids to draw from. However, wehn you actually see those kids you realize that probably 1700 of them would never cut it, and then another 90 of them couldn't care less about scholar bowl. Then that only leaves you with our scholar bowl team. That's why I don't think classes should matter.
But at the same time, you have more course options at Northtown than you would at smaller schools like New Cambria. That inherently leads to a deeper knowledge base ingrained during regular class hours. If you don't have the budget for a large curriculum, you have to dig up the resources necessary for outside of class time.

Second, the probability of finding four students willing to play quiz bowl is naturally greater at a larger school than smaller. Simple statistics. Small town players can brag all they want about being able to participate in quiz bowl as well as softball, basketball, FFA, FBLA, youth group, and the marching band, but if there isn't enough talent to allow specializing, it can become mere résumé padding and/or another school-sponsored babysitting opportunity.

And of course, there's the tax base. Suburban school districts, in theory, have more to spread around to various programs than rural or inner-city. If you can fund trips to tournaments with hi-profile tournaments, you naturally better yourself. And suburban schools have competition right in their back yard, meaning more cost-effective bus trips than driving through two counties to reach a tournament.

All of this, though, doesn't even take into account private schools, which pretty much translates into plenty of money regardless of school size. Barstow? Hogan Prep?

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Does Hogan Prep do Scholar Bowl? I think Pembroke is maybe the best example (although I don't see them out very much).

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Post by chad »

Have you guys even thought about TJ. They are class one and they are loaded. We all know that they are good.

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Post by East Buc & UMR »

Hogan isn't a private school... They are a charter school and aren't subject to the multiplier.

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ajax
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Post by ajax »

chad wrote: Have you guys even thought about TJ. They are class one and they are loaded. We all know that they are good.
Yes, but against Richland, a 2a school this year, they lost. Smaller schools might as well give up QB if all schools are put into the mix. Could a school like TJ battle Liberty, nooooo. Get some logic, gentlemen. Mix them all, and QB will suffer. Thus, they must be divided into the same class system and then use NAQT questions. Then if the schools want to, have them play each other to find the champion and send them to nationals.

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Post by KentB »

Illinois only has 2 classes ... A and AA ... I would be for a 2-division system if that is necessary.

Richland has beaten TJ this year and probably many times before but would Richland always win a game against TJ, Mound City (with Brandon), Viburnuum (with TMCE), etc. Who knows. That´s why I Class I and Class II should play each other in this type of format.

Also, Class III and Class IV really don´t have too many differences when we are talking about the elite teams. Savannah (forever) and WCA (the past few years) definitley haven´t been too affected by being a class lower than teams like Liberty, PCH, NKC, etc. I mean, in their prime, both teams would have contended or won against the Class IV schools and probably did numerous times (I´m not from the area so I don´t know).

That is one possible compromise here. I agree that not having divisions pretty much gives the Class I and II schools a much smaller shot at this.

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Post by Charlie Dees »

I would think that a small and large school division is a legitimate compromise. However, if you look at small schools from other places in the country you will find out that the classes shouldn't matter like they do.
In Kentucky, there is one class for the state championships (granted it is quick recall). Small schools frequently win that. Danville and Russel (both very small schools) could come over to Missouri and whip every one of our small schools, and quite possibly all of our large schools. Back when Jason Loy played at Cutter Morning Star (a small school) he could whoop up on most large schools.

What you are all saying is that Small schools almost automatically = weaker, which is not exactly true. I think the class system in Missouri makes the schools weaker. In the classes right now, teams that are small are content with having weaker teams because almost everyone else is weaker. If you dump large and small together I would be interested to see how many of the small schools improve to try to beat the better schools. I think most of them would.

If you consistently compete against higher quality competition, your team then can witness what good playing is and then can be motivated to improve. That's why certain areas of the country have such disparity in quality with everyone else.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I will add on to my above statement by this demonstration:
Richland is dominant in their class.
TJ is dominant in their class.

Richland and TJ both have played at tournaments that draw powerhouses in the upper classes. They've been exposed to good playing. Then they can learn how to step up their game (or keep it going strong if they win) and then go back and dominate their class. Same with Mound City.

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Post by scphilli »

KentB wrote:
Also, Class III and Class IV really don´t have too many differences when we are talking about the elite teams. Savannah (forever) and WCA (the past few years) definitley haven´t been too affected by being a class lower than teams like Liberty, PCH, NKC, etc. I mean, in their prime, both teams would have contended or won against the Class IV schools and probably did numerous times (I´m not from the area so I don´t know).
Savannah actually used to be a Class IV team. The decision to put it into the Class III was controversial at its time, but definitely demonstrates that schools on the border of the two classes wouldn't be affected by a mixed class.

The problem I see is not that being a bigger school = being better. The problem I see is that being a bigger school (or a school in a more affluent area) = having a broader tax base which allows teams to fund more quizbowl tournaments and better tournaments. When people have more matchplay, they gain sharpness and experience that helps them down the line. Schools in Class IV (Ladue, Liberty, NKC, etc. etc.) have the money to fund multiple trips a year against better teams than say Richland or Lexington when it was really competitive at MSHSAA. The major detriment to sticking everyone in one class is that it pretends that the schools of Missouri have reasonably close to equal funding and opportunities, which is just not the reality.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Putting NKC in that same funding category as LHW is just wrong. I know we get a stipend, but also lots of our funding is from the tournament that has been saved by us for years. LHW has an incredibly higher average income than our feeder area. Probably Liberty, too. However, you have a point about small schools.

I will say though that if those schools that have little funding were to hold a tournament they would have much more potential for funding. Just think how much money Savannah has from hosting their tournament for years and saving stuff up. And they are much smaller than Liberty/NKC, etc.

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Post by scphilli »

ashkenaziCD wrote: Putting NKC in that same funding category as LHW is just wrong. I know we get a stipend, but also lots of our funding is from the tournament that has been saved by us for years. LHW has an incredibly higher average income than our feeder area. Probably Liberty, too. However, you have a point about small schools.

I will say though that if those schools that have little funding were to hold a tournament they would have much more potential for funding. Just think how much money Savannah has from hosting their tournament for years and saving stuff up. And they are much smaller than Liberty/NKC, etc.
Funding in Missouri isn't drawn from income taxes. It's mostly from local property taxes and money from the state, with a little being kicked in by the feds.

Hosting your own tournaments only works if you live in an area where you can get schools to travel to it cheaply and afford to pay the registration fee, which is the case for KC and STL schools who can draw large numbers of schools from the city and rural areas. That's why a school like Savannah gains the money it gets. LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! I have seen this time and again on the collegiate and high school levels.

This is decidedly not the case if one wanted to host a tournament in the rural areas. It takes a lot more money to do trips (especially if you have to stay overnight which a lot of schools cannot afford), which means you do fewer and fewer of your students get a chance to play/gain experience. This is the competitive disadvantage.

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Post by FordATeam/CC »

ashkenaziCD wrote: I will say though that if those schools that have little funding were to hold a tournament they would have much more potential for funding. Just think how much money Savannah has from hosting their tournament for years and saving stuff up. And they are much smaller than Liberty/NKC, etc.
We did host a tournament last year in an effort to both give us more competition experience and hopefully raise some funds last year. About half of our high school faculty volunteered their time (which was a tremendous showing of support in our small school), but we barely made money after paying for questions, trophies (Varsity and JV both), medals, etc. We might have made a hundred dollars or so after all was said and done, but that doesn't go far. We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.

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Post by chad »

Quote(ajax Posted on Nov 27 2006, 11:12 PM)
Yes, but against Richland, a 2a school this year, they lost. Smaller schools might as well give up QB if all schools are put into the mix. Could a school like TJ battle Liberty, nooooo. Get some logic, gentlemen. Mix them all, and QB will suffer.
I do not disagree with you QB would be a lot harder and I suppport the seperation of classes. I do feel and I know I would have even more fun and gain alot more knowledge about A team if we would have some tourneyment by NAQT or MSHSAA with winners from every class.
What you are all saying is that Small schools almost automatically = weaker, which is not exactly true
Well you are right size does not always matter but it does help. I also think that if you apply yourself right any strong competative team can play any team any day.

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Post by Charlie Dees »

FordATeam/CC wrote: We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.
Umm. My family payed for me to go to ACE Camp, definitely NOT our quizbowl funding. So did everyone else on our team that went. I have a feeling that this is the case for most people who went from other schools.

Edit: I should also mention that ir is not just a staple for the elite around the state, but instead it is a staple for the elite around the nation.
Kids from Richard Montgomery go (including their phenom Chris Ray), a kid from State College went, a kid from Gonzaga-D.C.
Most of Brookwood, Dorman, Danville, Dunbar, and other amazing school's teams attend. While it's not every reason a team is good, it certainly helps.

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Post by scphilli »

ashkenaziCD wrote:
FordATeam/CC wrote: We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.
Umm. My family payed for me to go to ACE Camp, definitely NOT our quizbowl funding. So did everyone else on our team that went. I have a feeling that this is the case for most people who went from other schools.

Edit: I should also mention that ir is not just a staple for the elite around the state, but instead it is a staple for the elite around the nation.
Kids from Richard Montgomery go (including their phenom Chris Ray), a kid from State College went, a kid from Gonzaga-D.C.
Most of Brookwood, Dorman, Danville, Dunbar, and other amazing school's teams attend. While it's not every reason a team is good, it certainly helps.
The way you started off that post reminds me of this wonderful rule of thumb from our good friends at televisionwithoutpity.com (which by the way, is a hysterically funny site) about responding to posts :

"Don't start your posts with "um" or "uh" or words like that because nine times out of ten, those words precede a snotty correction directed at another poster. It's rude and dismissive and it drives the [TWOP] staff nuts, so please, don't do it."

Further down they also advise "If you want to point out an error, that's fine, but please find a way to do it that isn't the written equivalent of an eye-roll."

Granted that's not the rules for this site, but the basic idea of what they say is true.

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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

ashkenaziCD wrote:
FordATeam/CC wrote: We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.
Umm. My family payed for me to go to ACE Camp, definitely NOT our quizbowl funding. So did everyone else on our team that went. I have a feeling that this is the case for most people who went from other schools.
Yep. MSHSAA prohibits schools from paying for it. (Rule 241)

Directly, though. There are ways to get around that if the school's willing to reimburse.

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Post by FordATeam/CC »

L-Town Expatriate wrote:
ashkenaziCD wrote:
FordATeam/CC wrote: We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.
Umm. My family payed for me to go to ACE Camp, definitely NOT our quizbowl funding. So did everyone else on our team that went. I have a feeling that this is the case for most people who went from other schools.
Yep. MSHSAA prohibits schools from paying for it. (Rule 241)

Directly, though. There are ways to get around that if the school's willing to reimburse.
I'm sorry. I just could have swore that another coach had told me that they raise money to send their players. Hopefully I misinterpreted what they said.

I have talked to a few of my team members about going to camp, but the $400 fee is more than they either can or feel they can afford to spend. I would figure that this is the case in most small schools, although I know there are exceptions.

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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

FordATeam/CC wrote:
L-Town Expatriate wrote:
ashkenaziCD wrote:
FordATeam/CC wrote: We didn't even have funds to send a single student to ACE camp, which is apparently a staple in many elite programs around the state.
Umm. My family payed for me to go to ACE Camp, definitely NOT our quizbowl funding. So did everyone else on our team that went. I have a feeling that this is the case for most people who went from other schools.
Yep. MSHSAA prohibits schools from paying for it. (Rule 241)

Directly, though. There are ways to get around that if the school's willing to reimburse.
I'm sorry. I just could have swore that another coach had told me that they raise money to send their players. Hopefully I misinterpreted what they said.

I have talked to a few of my team members about going to camp, but the $400 fee is more than they either can or feel they can afford to spend. I would figure that this is the case in most small schools, although I know there are exceptions.
In theory, that money could never reach the school's hands. It'd sit in some escrow (read: Manila envelope in coach's desk) and then get dropped in a different account, then through that account parents are reimbursed for "team-related expenses" that would be defined as hospitality lounges and other travel.[size=-7]I used passive voice here to avoid inflicting suspicion. Hail teh negative seven text, practically invisible in Firefox!![/size]

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Post by Jeffrey Hill »

I don't see any negative seven text...

[size=-6]neg six[/size]
[size=-7]neg seven[/size]

6 is the lowest that shows up small in Safari

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Post by libertymark »

ScoBo1987 wrote: I don't see any negative seven text...

[size=-6]neg six[/size]
[size=-7]neg seven[/size]

6 is the lowest that shows up small in Safari
in firefox im only getting one of them (had to open a text editor to figure that out)

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Post by chad »

L-Town Expatriate Posted on Nov 30 2006, 01:21 AM In theory, that money could never reach the school's hands. It'd sit in some escrow (read: Manila envelope in coach's desk) and then get dropped in a different account, then through that account parents are reimbursed for "team-related expenses" that would be defined as hospitality lounges and other travel.I
Money in folders, money under the tabel it kinda sounds illiagel, I LIKE IT.







B)

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Post by ajax »

I came from a small school, and it is very difficult for smaller schools to beat larger schools. Larger schools have more resources than smaller school due to enlarged tax bases. I agree with you that a smaller school can beat a larger school, but based on sheer probability, the chances are small. If teams are willing to become better, they will become better. However, many players in smaller schools do not really care about their quiz bowl abilities; quiz bowl to them is a waste of time because they have no motivation to do well. I blame much of this problem on the coaches and the players themselves. Most players lose motivation when they are wiped off the field; the best players get better from the loss. We live in a world where victory is everything, and to lose you are nothing. We, as coaches and players, should change this overly competitive worldview beginning with quiz bowl.

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Post by FordATeam/CC »

chad wrote:
L-Town Expatriate Posted on Nov 30 2006, 01:21 AM In theory, that money could never reach the school's hands. It'd sit in some escrow (read: Manila envelope in coach's desk) and then get dropped in a different account, then through that account parents are reimbursed for "team-related expenses" that would be defined as hospitality lounges and other travel.I
Money in folders, money under the tabel it kinda sounds illiagel, I LIKE IT.







B)
It's not an option Chad! It seems like every time I try to find a way to improve on the message board (Setting up an alternate summer camp, Paying for student enrollment to ACE camp, etc.), it ends up being something that might or would break a MHSHAA rule. Luckily, so far all have just been ideas and other board members have let me know the conflict created. I know that the rules and regulations are set up, in theory, to keep a level playing field and make sure things run smooth, but it seems that sometimes they can make it tough on the coaches.

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Post by chad »

I was just jokeing I would never except money under the table. I was just being sarcastic. Mabey we should try and get some fundraser of some sort like an interschool tourneyment, that would be fun.

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Post by STPickrell »

FordATeam/CC wrote: It's not an option Chad! It seems like every time I try to find a way to improve on the message board (Setting up an alternate summer camp, Paying for student enrollment to ACE camp, etc.), it ends up being something that might or would break a MHSHAA rule. Luckily, so far all have just been ideas and other board members have let me know the conflict created. I know that the rules and regulations are set up, in theory, to keep a level playing field and make sure things run smooth, but it seems that sometimes they can make it tough on the coaches.
Are teams allowed to have "student-run" workouts during the summer?

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Post by DeckardCain »

I thought we established that student-run workouts and summer camps are legal as long as they're open to everyone.

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L-Town Expatriate
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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

ajax wrote: We, as coaches and players, should change this overly competitive worldview beginning with quiz bowl.
There's an irony in this statement. To make quiz bowl more competitive, we have to treat it as a less competitive event? Boggling. :wacko: :wacko:

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Post by STPickrell »

DeckardCain wrote: I thought we established that student-run workouts and summer camps are legal as long as they're open to everyone.
that's what i'd thought ...

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Post by FordATeam/CC »

I forgot until after my post, it was established. I just remember it seemed like someone was accusing me of trying to cheat when the original discussion came up, which was definitely not what I was looking to do.

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Post by Charlie Dees »

Thread bump.

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Post by ecks »

I didn't see this thread before, so I guess I'll comment on it now.

For starters, there will be no NAQT HS Championship for Missouri in 2008 - the deadline was May 31 2007.

Overall, I'd like to see an NAQT HS Championship in Missouri - although Illinois' isn't really one to look to for encouragement; theirs is highly underadvertised and represents a very small portion of the state (8 teams, all of them except Carbondale from Chitown-area).

I'd also say that Chuq's ideal of 48 teams in a central location is unrealistic for two reasons: (1) It would take a long time to get 48 teams to come, given the relative priciness of NAQT tournaments, and (2) Colleges are probably the best bets for hosting something like this. Namely, Truman, Rolla, or WashU, none of which are centrally located (WashU probably has the advantage here; it's home base to any StL school and 3 hours from KC, whereas Truman is 3 hours from both KC and StL... I don't know how for Rolla is from things). So barring a Mueller departure from Mizzou and a true rebuilding of Mizzou's quizbowl team happens, having it happen in Columbia seems highly unlikely.

Other than those problems, I'd like to see this happen, although not necessarily at Truman.

Oh, and as for all that nonsense about not collapsing the classes - why is there such opposition? Who cares if Class 3 or 4 teams will win it every year? There's something to be said about crowning a state champion from a pool that draws from ALL the high schools in Missouri, no matter the size. Leave the class divisions to MSHSAA.

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Post by STPickrell »

I suspect NAQT would be willing to work with a host if they expressed interest between now and September. Just my guess. If NAQT, David Bykowski, or I win the contract, there will probably be some movement towards having this.

Virginia offers some good hope as its state championship regularly has 20+ teams, although it falling outside VHSL season depresses attendance a bit.

Remember Rock Bridge has a tournament in late January. Not sure if other Mid-Missouri schools have well-regarded tournaments ... for what it is worth the coach at RB said that everyone there (it was 1A/2A teams like Pilot Grove and Jeff City's JV team) liked my questions, so I don't think the opposition to pyramidal questions is so great. Maybe it's a perception that pyramidal = difficult? I suspect we could convince one of the Mid-Missouri tournaments to become NAQT states.

What you could do is have the regular state championship IS set for teams who are seriously gunning for things and wheel out an A set for the local teams who just want to have fun.

If I were a coach at a Single A school, I'd probably want my team to play the big boys 2-3 times a year before states, especially if I'd built my team to the point where they destroy the local schools and aren't really tested until states, and then try my luck at NAQT nationals if I were blessed enough to qualify. I would not want a steady diet of going .500 or worse at tournaments but if my team wanted to keep going I would accede to their wishes.

I'd want to balance (1) required conference/district matches, (2) matchups against teams 1-2 hours away I might meet at states, and (3) matchups against the "big boys."

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Post by East Buc & UMR »

Not sure how fast you drive Chris but the best time I've made from downtown KC to downtown STL is 3 and half hours. going 90-95 most of the way in the middle.

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Post by Byko »

STPickrell wrote:I suspect NAQT would be willing to work with a host if they expressed interest between now and September. Just my guess. If NAQT, David Bykowski, or I win the contract, there will probably be some movement towards having this.

Virginia offers some good hope as its state championship regularly has 20+ teams, although it falling outside VHSL season depresses attendance a bit.

Remember Rock Bridge has a tournament in late January. Not sure if other Mid-Missouri schools have well-regarded tournaments ... for what it is worth the coach at RB said that everyone there (it was 1A/2A teams like Pilot Grove and Jeff City's JV team) liked my questions, so I don't think the opposition to pyramidal questions is so great. Maybe it's a perception that pyramidal = difficult? I suspect we could convince one of the Mid-Missouri tournaments to become NAQT states.

What you could do is have the regular state championship IS set for teams who are seriously gunning for things and wheel out an A set for the local teams who just want to have fun.

If I were a coach at a Single A school, I'd probably want my team to play the big boys 2-3 times a year before states, especially if I'd built my team to the point where they destroy the local schools and aren't really tested until states, and then try my luck at NAQT nationals if I were blessed enough to qualify. I would not want a steady diet of going .500 or worse at tournaments but if my team wanted to keep going I would accede to their wishes.

I'd want to balance (1) required conference/district matches, (2) matchups against teams 1-2 hours away I might meet at states, and (3) matchups against the "big boys."
Well, we won't win the MSHSAA contract--we didn't end up getting all of the paperwork together in time, plus considering we're really hitting a major growth period right now, we might have had difficulty getting three customer references (especially ones who would respond within a two-month time period). Considering the numerous other tournaments we are getting, though, I'm okay with this. But now, I throw my support behind STPickrell in hopes that, for the good of Missouri, they win the contract.

As for it being too late to get something set up for 2007-08, it isn't. There's always a push to get NAQT state championships together, especially in states where there hasn't been one in a while (or ever). We helped get Maryland/DC's organized somewhere around late December to early January, so trust me, the "deadline" is pretty fake.

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Post by STPickrell »

Thanks for the endorsement, Dave! If my VHSL questions can help bolster your capabilities please let me know. I may be needing some bonuses from you if I get the contract; generating 49 MSHSAA matches in a few months will be challenging to say the least.

If I manage to win it, I would want teams using NAQT for weekend tournaments and then my group of 36 matches for their dual and conference competitions. This doesn't hurt Virginia as we almost ran out of IS sets.

I suspect Aegis and Dynasty may find some market room in Virginia in the next few years.

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Post by ecks »

East Buc & UMR wrote: Not sure how fast you drive Chris but the best time I've made from downtown KC to downtown STL is 3 and half hours. going 90-95 most of the way in the middle.
Thank you for pointing out the absolutely most irrelevant fact of my case. It really contributed to this discussion, let me tell you. In all matters of Missouri driving, I shall defer to you in the future.

As for the other responses, that's good to hear about the flexibility of the deadline - having no dealings with NAQT other than going to their tournaments and sometimes hosting them on their questions, I didn't know how flexible they were.

Also, good points about Rock Bridge's tournament. They didn't seem deterred by the NAQT tournament Truman St. had a couple semesters back, so they're not adverse to NAQT pyramidality at all. Most of the opposition to questions that I've seen has come from small-ish rural towns, although admittedly the questions Truman ACO members tend to write are on the harder side anyway, so it may not be the pyramidality that they take issue with.

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Post by KentB »

I thought Kyle was the one to defer to about highway travel anywhere in the US









:P

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Post by ecks »

KentB wrote: I thought Kyle was the one to defer to about highway travel anywhere in the US









:P
Yeah, but he's been pretty absent from the boards as of late.

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