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Lexington tournament 2008

Tournament announcements, results, and discussion about specific tournaments.
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Charlie Dees
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by Charlie Dees »

I guess I'll be the first to post about it. While I'm unsure what teams are planning on going, I know that NKC will not go unless Brandon wants to play solo or round up some JV teammates because everybody else on our team has commitments ranging from MSHSAA's district music contest to going to Tulsa. I'd have a pretty strong feeling that a lot of people in KC will be unable to come to this because of music, actually.

FishyFreshman
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by FishyFreshman »

Liberty is going I believe. I don't think anyone on our team will be affected by the music stuff except for Alison.

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redliberte
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Post by redliberte »

BOO music contest.

LibertyBowler09
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Post by LibertyBowler09 »

FishyFreshman wrote: Liberty is going I believe. I don't think anyone on our team will be affected by the music stuff except for Alison.
Yes, we are going, Spencer. And I have ensemble as well, so I'll only be there in the afternoon.

richbob
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by richbob »

Her is the list of teams in the Lexington Tournament:

Blue Springs
Boonville
Bunceton
Cameron
El Dorado Springs
Excelsior Springs
Glasgow
Hallsville
Helias
Hickman Mills
Jefferson City
Kearney
Lee's Summit North
Lexington
Liberty
Marshall
Oak Grove
Orrick
Park Hill
Pilot Grove
Raymore-Peculiar
Rock Bridge
Savannah
Smithton
St. Mary's
St. Joseph Christian
St. Paul
Truman
Waynesville
Wellington-Napoleon
William Chrisman
Winnetonka

On the waiting list: Lone Jack

This is the list that Jim McCrary sent me since I am providing the questions. I have tried to write as many pyramidal questions as possible, simulating what teams may encounter at districts. It is somewhat difficult to write pyramidal math computation questions, however. Most of the pyramidal questions are from three to five sentences long.

I do promise that the questions are evenly spread between the major subect areas. There is a math, science, social studies, and language arts question in every group of five questions. In addition, the bonus rounds are evenly spread among these fields.

Here is the subject area of the tossup questions:

Science: Biology, chemistry, earth science, health-medicne, and physical science

Social Studies: American history, government-law, U.S. geography, world geography, and world history

Language arts: American Literature, grammar-foreign language, spelling,
vocabulary-mythology, and world literature

Mathematics - algebra I, algebra II, measurement-general math, geometry, and
trigonometry-caculus-math analysis

General Knowledge: business-economics, entertainment, arts, sports, and
potpourri

If you have any complaints and/or suggestions on the questions, please email them to me at the following address: questionbank@webound.com

I am very open to suggestions that will improve the quality of my questions.

Have a great tournament. Good luck to all of you at districts.

richbob
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by richbob »

One other note on the Lexington Tournament questions.

Please do not discuss any of these questions on the board as I am using them in other tournaments this year.

Any team that participates in the Lexington Tournament is entitled to copies of the questions. Feel free to email me and I will email the set to you after the tournament is over.

If you did not attend the tournament and would like the set to practice with, they can be purchased from me. I will email them to you on the evening of April 5. The cost for these seven games will be fifty dollars (normal cost is 25 dollars per game).

My email address again is: questionbank@webound.com

Bob Brown

DIoanis
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by DIoanis »

I would be guessing that a lot of people will be missing for MSHSAA contests like Liberty and NKC. I know Truman and Blue Springs and mabye LSN had district contests earlier this month, like the 8th i think, whenever rolla was since half of my team didn't go and we really sucked.

Funsizeazn
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by Funsizeazn »

yeah, debate congress districts are this saturday as well.

AShoaib
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by AShoaib »

Blue Springs
Boonville
Bunceton
Cameron
El Dorado Springs
Excelsior Springs
Glasgow
Hallsville
Helias
Hickman Mills
Jefferson City
Kearney
Lee's Summit North
Lexington
Liberty
Marshall
Oak Grove
Orrick
Park Hill
Pilot Grove
Raymore-Peculiar
Rock Bridge
Savannah
Smithton
St. Mary's
St. Joseph Christian
St. Paul
Truman
Waynesville
Wellington-Napoleon
William Chrisman
Winnetonka
I say Savannah, Pilot Grove, Helias and Truman in the top 4 (no order). I've not heard of half these teams. Again, at most of the tournaments, we place class 3 and 4 teams.

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Charlie Dees
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by Charlie Dees »

Abdullah, chances are the field will be split into large and small school fields.

hugatree1715
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Post by hugatree1715 »

I say Savannah, Pilot Grove, Helias and Truman in the top 4 (no order).
I sure hope so, but I will not be there to help. Hopefully, our team will be able to pull it off without a major player. I've had a commitment this weekend for a few months, long before I knew of this tournament. I'm kind of sad that I will miss our last tournament this year (save districts). I think some perennial strong teams that will do well will be Liberty, Blue Springs, Savannah... I think Rock Bridge is pretty good...maybe LSN and Truman (if they can get over not having me, a core of the math/science/miscellaneous departments).

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Jeffrey Hill
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Post by Jeffrey Hill »

richbob wrote: I have tried to write as many pyramidal questions as possible, simulating what teams may encounter at districts. It is somewhat difficult to write pyramidal math computation questions, however. Most of the pyramidal questions are from three to five sentences long.
I am glad to see this. I went to Liberty's practices today and on Tuesday and could not stand the one-liners that they practiced on.

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

I would say Savannah Helias Liberty and Blue Springs

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

Also don't know some of the schools

AShoaib
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Post by AShoaib »

Wow, I overlooked Liberty completely. Knock out Truman with Blue Springs (I saw some of their scores, they look impressive, and if they're missing a key player...) and Helias with Liberty.

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L-Town Expatriate
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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

ashkenaziCD wrote: Abdullah, chances are the field will be split into large and small school fields.
McCrary's done that in the past, and I would not be surprised to see the same happen this year.

hugatree1715
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Post by hugatree1715 »

Knock out Truman with Blue Springs (I saw some of their scores, they look impressive, and if they're missing a key player...)
But, as another development, Blue Springs has lost a major player as well (Amanda); she is getting involved with a job and an internship, so she will not be present at Lexington.

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Jeffrey Hill
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Post by Jeffrey Hill »

Reminder: specific question content cannot be discussed
richbob wrote:Please do not discuss any of these questions on the board as I am using them in other tournaments this year.
I watched the first 2 1/2 games. Overall I enjoyed these questions; significantly better than the one liners Liberty practiced on this week. Questions had several clues and they were generally arranged appropriately. I can't say for sure if there were many buzzer races but they didn't seem like these questions would cause an unacceptable number of them.

Some issues:
Breaking the "immediately make clear what's being asked for" rule
--- The biggest problem in this set. Several of the questions started out describing something and would go on for a couple of lines without ever making clear what is being asked for. There was at least one question where Savannah buzzed in early and answered what was being described instead of what specific attribute of it the question ultimately asked for (Liberty's player accidentally repeated the same answer, so it ended up going unanswered). It needs to be apparent very early that you're asking for a person, place, element, legislative act, etc.; otherwise, it is basically unanswerable until (and can easily become a buzzer race when) the class of object is finally revealed.

Acceptable answers not given or unclear
--- There was one question where there were several alternate names for what was being asked about, but the question ultimately asked "give the XXXX name for this, also known as YYY or ZZZ". When a player buzzed in early and said YYY, they were ruled incorrect. This also brings up another issue - most of the time, the final question should not ask for a specific name for something, and should always accept all names for the same thing. (Somebody feel free to provide exceptions/counterexamples/etc.)

--- Also, it's possible that what is required is not clearly indicated on the page. On one such question, the moderator ruled Savannah incorrect but I probably would have accepted their answer (the answer given was missing a word that I would agree with Savannah is implied by the question). It should have either been accepted or verbally prompted, instead of *couple seconds of moderator silence*.... "incorrect". (This particular instance may be debatable; once Mr. Brown allows discussion I will post the answer to see what you all think)

Some math errors
-- there were 2 incorrect math answers in round 1, and I think one in the first half of round 3.


Other less-significant issues
---I think there were a few questions that may have had minor clue ordering problems but nothing too problematic.
---I also noticed a concept in math that came up a little too frequently in only 2 1/2 rounds.
---Especially at this point in the season I personally don't care for the significant number of "beginning with the letter" clues or bonuses with answers all beginning with a certain letter.



One very minor stylistic issue (that would have virtually no effect on the outcome/fairness of any game) I noticed was some questions that may have had too much following the giveaway clue, similar to this:

(Question about an author)
Hardest clue. Middle clue. In #### he published [GIVEAWAY WORK] blah blah blah. Name him.

Since teams buzzed in on the giveaway clue, I don't know how much text followed. This is a very minor and borderline nitpicky observation. At UMR we try to put the giveaway clue as close to the end of the question as possible. (I'm also not too fond of the "Name him" type statement at the end of several questions)


Once again, I was generally pleased with these questions, minus the three main issues I listed above. Fixing these three issues would undoubtedly make these questions among the best available to Missouri. (I was more disappointed in teams not getting stuff that they should have than by the problems with the questions)

hugatree1715
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Post by hugatree1715 »

Does anyone have standings or scores from the rounds? I would like to know who won, and if possible, how Truman did without me.

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

Liberty placed first, Northtown second, Savannah third, and Oak Grove fourth.

I was not fond of the questions. Everything mentioned above was definitely a problem.

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

As far as individual scorers in the big school division

1 - Terin (savannah)
2 - Someone from Oak Grove
3 - Grant (nkc)
4 - Me (liberty)
5 - Brandon (nkc)
6 - Allie (liberty)
7 and 8 were also awarded medals but I can't remember to whom. I think they had both left already.

NKCtrashman
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Post by NKCtrashman »

1. Liberty
2. NKC (without Charles, Tyler, or Victor)
3. Savannah
4. Oak Grove

Top Scorers
1. Terin 11.9ish ppg
2. Drew from Oak Grove 11.5ish
3. Grant 11
4. Spencer 9.8ish
5. Brandon 9
Overall I enjoyed these questions
Really i found these questions to be terrible. Many left-turns in the questions. Many questions included a long section of useless information and the player could not know what was being asked. It got so bad that in the final our moderator said "Man I hate Bob Brown". Several repeats were present in the afternoon packets. The distribution was significantly off and misleading. When there wasnt a hook in the question, they were often transparent. The distribution was so bad in one round that we lost to Oak Grove because they would get an inordinate amount of trash and middle school lit. Later we played in a round with significantly less trash amd killed them.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Wait, so was it just you and Grant, or did we send some JV people?

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

There was certainly a shortage of lit. I was very sick of the left turns and hooks by the end. You can't start by describing something and then asking for something else related. You also can't put something that is VITAL to a correct answer at the very end when there are multiple possible answers until that point. As previously stated, there were also a few wrong answers in the questions. I noticed 2 or 3 math ones, and a bit of wrong information in the actual question that made answering correctly considerably more difficult.

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

Charles - they had two JV girls with them.

NKCtrashman
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Post by NKCtrashman »

Thao and Emily went.

Charles if youda been there, they would still be cleaning up a myriad of cherry coke stains.

Oh and Mr. Brown. These questions were not pyramidal in the least bit. A pyramidal question must start with a uniquely indentifying clue. Just because a question is longer doesn't make it pyramdal.

Terrorizer
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Post by Terrorizer »

First, I would like to thank Lexington for hosting a tournament and congratulations to Liberty, NKC and Oak Grove. That out of the way, I will move on to playing devil's advocate for these questions. I found them to be very unbalanced and repitive.

1) "Rhymes with" or the "Initials are" should never appear in high school quiz bowl rounds. If a give away clue is legitimately needed add one, but do not make it a bad rap contest rendition.
2) The balance of the questions was terrible. In round six, there were only three history questions. The other questions that would have been history became Law and Government or Geography. Both of those catagories are allowed in quiz bowl, but they were over used. There is a reason history is a major at ACE camp and geography is a minor. Literature was also bad. Returning to round six, there were four literature questions. If I remeber correctly The other six in the round were spelling, vocab or random other junk that was shoved under the catagory of lit. I do not know what balance MO rounds call for under MSHAA, but I know these did not even come close to following it. In state games, at least seven or more LA questions are actually lit.
3) Sports questions about the NCAA tournamnet this year appeared in every other round. Sports questions also tended to be in the bonus rounds.
4) Bonus catagories called starts with or rhymes with. I do not think I need to elaborate.
5) Unspecific leads. Liberty and Savannah both got burned by buzzing in and answering questions in a way that seemed appopriate considering the lead. If you want a certain method of naming a formula used, dictate that early in the question so that I team won't get burned for knowing an answer too quickly.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Here is the MSHSAA distribution:
Categories for Questions (The moderator will announce the category of each question):
a. Science: general science, earth science, biology/physiology/anatomy, chemistry, physics, astronomy.
b. Mathematics: general math, geometry/elementary trigonometry, algebra, computers, analytic geometry/advanced trigonometry/calculus (No more than 2 from the last group of topics).
c. Social Studies: world history, government, geography, American history, economics/consumer education, psychology, sociology (No more than 2 questions from last three topics).
d. Literature: world literature (all genres), American literature (all genres), British literature (all genres), mythology, Journalism.
e. Fine Arts/Performing Arts: art, music, dance, philosophy, architecture, theater.
f. Language Arts: grammar/usage, spelling, vocabulary, speech.
Note 1: Students may pronounce spelling words prior to spelling them but the answer must be completed within the specified time limit. Note 2: The moderator shall NOT spell words within a question, including those that are difficult to pronounce.
g. Miscellaneous/vocational education: sports, business education, agriculture, home economics, driver’s education, health/physical fitness, industrial trades/industrial arts.
From page 18:
Breakdown of questions
a. Each match will contain a total of fifty (50) toss-up questions and twenty (20) bonus questions. Each match will consist of the following specific number of questions in each category:
SCIENCE— ten (10) toss-up and four (4) bonus;
MATHEMATICS — ten (10) toss-up and four (4) bonus;
SOCIAL STUDIES — ten (10) toss-up and four (4) bonus;
LITERATURE — ten (10) toss-up and four (4) bonus;
FINE ARTS/PERFORMING ARTS — three (3) toss-up and one (1) bonus;
LANGUAGE ARTS — three (3) toss-up and one (1) bonus;
MISCELLANEOUS/VOCATIONAL EDUCATION — four (4) toss-up and two (2) bonus.
b. Thirty (30) of these toss-ups will be used in the first and third quarter. These thirty (30) toss-ups shall be broken down as follows: six (6) science, six (6) mathematics, six (6) social studies, six (6) literature, two (2) fine arts/performing arts, two (2) language arts, and
two (2) miscellaneous/vocational education.
c. The remaining twenty (20) toss-up questions and twenty (20) bonus questions will be used in the second and fourth quarters.
d. The questions will be placed in random order and in the second and fourth quarter randomly associated with the following bonus question.
e. Second and fourth quarter will be printed with a toss-up followed by a bonus question. If neither team answers the toss-up question correctly, the bonus question following that particular toss-up will not be used with any subsequent toss-up question.
5. Restrictions on Questions:
a. No true-false or other types of two-option questions will be permitted.
b. Multiple choice toss-up and bonus questions will not be permitted except in the case of vocabulary (analogy) toss-up questions. For such multiple choice questions, any verbal response that indicates one of the choices will be acceptable.
c. If a question is multiple choice, the moderator will announce this before the question is read.
d. All questions included in a bonus question must be on a related topic
So it looks to me like if Terin's numbers are right (and I have no reason not to believe her) this set did not adhere to MSHSAA requirements. Also I would say I pretty much agree with every one of her points assuming they really were problems with this set.
Also, something I feel like I must once again affirm is what Brandon said about length vs. clues. You can write a 9 line tossup, but that doesn't automatically mean it's pyramidal. If it is not uniquely identifying from as soon as possible, it is not pyramidal - you need to have concrete, helpful clues from the beginning all the way down to the end. You can not swerve partway through and ask for something other then what you indicated in the beginning. If in your first line you say "In this book, ..." you cannot change and ask at the end "Who wrote this book?" At the same time, a "funnel question" is not pyramidal either - you can't start the question with tons of potential answers ("This author was from the United States") and then gradually narrow the answer space down ("He won a Pulitzer and a National Book award") before finally getting to an actual unique, buzzable clue like characters and plots from works they wrote, or titles of their books. That is nothing but a waste of space that sets up buzzer races - instead you absolutely need to begin with a unique clue and keep the clues as unique as you can all the rest of the way through. Until that happens, a question is not pyramidal - remember, the purpose of a pyramidal tossup is to reward someone with deep knowledge of a subject.

DIoanis
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Lexington tournament 2008

Post by DIoanis »

I hate to say it, but truman didn't fare too well at lexington. We lost to Kearney i think by like 80, since we haven't lost to them in like over 2 years and smoked them in quads this year. We also lost to Helias B which as a B team never saw comming. If we were to have won over Kearney I think we would have been playing NKC which personaly I would have liked. Again it's been over 2 years since truman and NKC played each other, and even though I'm sure what the outcome would have been, it would have been nice to get the "experence" everyone talks about. We play LSN and Blue Springs a ton, but not Liberty or NKC or Savannah. I think we hit Savannah once this year at Rolla, but that was it. (Maple Woods doesn't count because of different format)
In fact for that matter there are only a handfull of teams truman has played in our district more than once. Kearney(1-1) will not be trouble like at lexington, we have played them before and with michael playing(and if were more awake, I mean the guy on the team was shooting hoops before the rounds so he had a fast heartbeat or something. He was on the ball in the first round. Helias'
teams were shooting hoops too for that matter). We played Platte County twice and...well there program has not been up to par the past few years (I think we played them twice, once at truman's sKnowbowl and at NKC's NAQT, going 2-0). Park Hill we have play twice(1-2, the one win at quads, but they beat us in quad finals and placed ahead of us at maple woods, but again maple woods doesn't count so 1-1). Played Park Hill South and Oak Park in quads, and beat both. Liberty we placed ahead of at maple woods which really was a fluke, saw NKC at maple woods but not anywhere eles. And Excelsior Springs which we beat at Lexington soundly, so they are not going to be any work. We did play Fort Osage at LSN early on in the season and I remenber it came down to the last question. Fort is having a good year compaired to other years in of their program. We have not played William Chrisman or Winnetonka but...well I sure you all know how they are. (i will start a new topic about districts and I'm just going to post this whole thing on that. I know I rambled on lol......)

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

Your rambling seems pretty pointless in this topic. Also, you didn't fare* well, not fair =)

DIoanis
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Post by DIoanis »

sue me.....sorry i can't type and spell at the same time too lol

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

I really wish this board took a cue from HSQuizbowl and made it a rule to try and actually approximate the rules of written English instead of this online uncapitalized, improperly punctuated internet nonsense.

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Post by LibertyBowler09 »

FishyFreshman wrote: Your rambling seems pretty pointless in this topic.
If you knew Dakota, you would know that he rambles on and on about things all the time. Soon you will learn to ignore it.









^_^

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

I agree with Charles. This isn't 4chan.

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Charlie Dees
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Post by Charlie Dees »

Lets hope not, or else I would have blinded myself before I even joined.

FordATeam/CC
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Post by FordATeam/CC »

Lexington Results (compliments of Mr. McCrary):

Blue Division-

Round 1:
Bunceton 190 - Pilot Grove B 30
Pilot Grove A 265 - St. Joseph Christian B 160
Lexington 150 - Lone Jack 100
El Dorado Springs 225 - Orrick 50
Glasgow 255 - Boonville 235
Wellington-Napoleon 280 - Cameron 155
St. Paul Lutheran 175 - Smithton 150
St. Joseph Christian A 235 - St. Mary's 185

Round 2:
Pilot Grove A 285 - Bunceton 190
El Dorado Springs 125 - Lexington 100
Wellington-Napoleon 265 (W-ot) - Glasgow 265
St. Joseph Christian A 200 - St. Paul Lutheran 160
St. Joseph B 215 - Pilot Grove B 100
Lone Jack 150 - Orrick 80
Boonville 225 - Cameron 210
St. Mary's 225 - Smithton 170

Round 3:
Pilot Grove A 420 - El Dorado Springs 70
Wellington-Napoleon 270 - St. Joseph Christian A 185
St. Joseph Christian B 165 - Lone Jack 115
Boonville 255 - St. Mary's 110
Lexington 200 - Bunceton 130
Glasgow 375 - St. Paul Lutheran 105
Pilot Grove B 90 - Orrick 55
Cameron 185 - Smithton 155

Quarterfinal A:
(5) St. Joseph Christian A 320 - (12) St. Paul Lutheran 170
(11) Bunceton 195 - (6) St. Joseph Christian B 165
(10) St. Mary's 255 - (7) Lexington 165
(8) El Dorado Springs 190 - (9) Cameron 170

Quarterfinal B:
(1) Pilot Grove 280 - (8) El Dorado Springs 50
(2) Wellington Napoleon 235 - (10) St. Mary's 170
(3) Glasgow 270 - (11) Bunceton 130
(5) St. Joseph Christian A 260 - (4) Boonville 115

Semifinals:
(1) Pilot Grove A 255 - (5) St. Joseph Christian A 245
(2) Wellington-Napoleon 285 - (3) Glasgow 280

Consolation:
(3) Glasgow 245 - (5) St. Joseph Christian A 185

Championship:
(1) Pilot Grove A 255 - (2) Wellington-Napoleon 125

All-Tournament:
1) 11.17 Rex Ryan (Wellington-Napoleon)
2) 9.67 Nate Schuster (Pilot Grove)
3) 9.00 Adam Nelson (St. Joseph Christian)
4) 8.00 Grant Monnig (Glasgow)
5) 7.25 Stephen Mason (St. Paul Lutheran)
6) 5.67 Lauren Himmelburg (Glasgow)
7) 5.60 Rachel Kissee (St. Mary's)
8) 5.50 Jake Herzog (St. Joseph Christian)

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scphilli
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Post by scphilli »

FordATeam/CC wrote:
Round 2:

Boonville 225 - Cameron 210
I don't care how long I live, news like that will always warm the cackles of my heart.

East Buc & UMR
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Post by East Buc & UMR »

And somewhere else David Harris chringes










:)

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scphilli
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Post by scphilli »

East Buc & UMR wrote: And somewhere else David Harris chringes










:)
Meh. He should know by now that I love him. Course that info might make him cringe more.

Funsizeazn
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Post by Funsizeazn »

do we get to see the results for the red division?

FishyFreshman
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Post by FishyFreshman »

As soon as Coach Camp sends me the results I can post them, we kept the bracket.

Funsizeazn
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:00 am

Lexington tournament 2008

Post by Funsizeazn »

did camp ever get the results?

FishyFreshman
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:00 am

Lexington tournament 2008

Post by FishyFreshman »

Oops, kind of forget about this. I will email her.

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